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There is no comparison possible between what an iPhone & Android phone does
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Wally J
4 nov 2023, 21:25:3304/11/23
a
You can chastise me if I ever say something unreasonable or illogical.
This is a reasonable logical and sensible assessment based on facts:
*There is no comparison between what an iPhone & Android phone does*
My Samsung Galaxy A32-5G was free from T-Mobile (as you're well aware),
so all I paid was the 10% sales tax on the MSPR and it came with a charger.
That free phone is far more powerful than any iPhone ever sold, in terms of
what it can do (which I hope people understand by now), so it's already
better than any iPhone ever sold - and it was essentially free + tax.
Alan Browne claims he can find a "comparable" iPhone but he can't.
He lied.
As just one example, my free phone does GPS spoofing.
Can any iPhone do that?
My free phone can graphically debug Wi-Fi APs. Can any iPhone do that?
My free phone can run the Tor browser. Can any iPhone do that?
My free phone can run a system firewall. Can any iPhone do that?
My free phone can swap out the launcher. Can any iPhone do that?
My free phone can change the default text messenger.
My free phone can do automatic call recording.
My free phone can torrent.
My free phone can ...
The point is that Alan Browne pretends that his iPhone can do that.
But it can't.
There is no "comparable" iPhone to even my free Android phone.
What Alan Browne is doing is ignoring that an iPhone is just a toy.
A very expensive toy.
But a toy nonetheless.
There is no comparison between what an iPhone & Android phone does.
This is a reasonable logical and sensible assessment based on facts:
*There is no comparison between what an iPhone & Android phone does*
My Samsung Galaxy A32-5G was free from T-Mobile (as you're well aware),
so all I paid was the 10% sales tax on the MSPR and it came with a charger.
That free phone is far more powerful than any iPhone ever sold, in terms of
what it can do (which I hope people understand by now), so it's already
better than any iPhone ever sold - and it was essentially free + tax.
Alan Browne claims he can find a "comparable" iPhone but he can't.
He lied.
As just one example, my free phone does GPS spoofing.
Can any iPhone do that?
My free phone can graphically debug Wi-Fi APs. Can any iPhone do that?
My free phone can run the Tor browser. Can any iPhone do that?
My free phone can run a system firewall. Can any iPhone do that?
My free phone can swap out the launcher. Can any iPhone do that?
My free phone can change the default text messenger.
My free phone can do automatic call recording.
My free phone can torrent.
My free phone can ...
The point is that Alan Browne pretends that his iPhone can do that.
But it can't.
There is no "comparable" iPhone to even my free Android phone.
What Alan Browne is doing is ignoring that an iPhone is just a toy.
A very expensive toy.
But a toy nonetheless.
There is no comparison between what an iPhone & Android phone does.
Arno Welzel
5 nov 2023, 13:26:0305/11/23
a
Wally J, 2023-11-05 02:25:
[...]> There is no "comparable" iPhone to even my free Android phone.
Why should it be so? iPhones have a completely different audience who
does not need all these features.
--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de
[...]> There is no "comparable" iPhone to even my free Android phone.
Why should it be so? iPhones have a completely different audience who
does not need all these features.
--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de
Alan
5 nov 2023, 14:10:4105/11/23
a
On 2023-11-04 18:25, Wally J wrote:
> You can chastise me if I ever say something unreasonable or illogical.
>
> This is a reasonable logical and sensible assessment based on facts:
> *There is no comparison between what an iPhone & Android phone does*
>
> My Samsung Galaxy A32-5G was free from T-Mobile (as you're well aware),
> so all I paid was the 10% sales tax on the MSPR and it came with a charger.
This is one of the more stupid things you've ever said.
> You can chastise me if I ever say something unreasonable or illogical.
>
> This is a reasonable logical and sensible assessment based on facts:
> *There is no comparison between what an iPhone & Android phone does*
>
> My Samsung Galaxy A32-5G was free from T-Mobile (as you're well aware),
> so all I paid was the 10% sales tax on the MSPR and it came with a charger.
You think it was FREE because there wasn't a line item on the initial bill?
How naive.
Wally J
6 nov 2023, 04:43:3106/11/23
a
Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
> [...]> There is no "comparable" iPhone to even my free Android phone.
>
> Why should it be so? iPhones have a completely different audience who
> does not need all these features.
Arno,
You can always make a sensible logical statement when you converse with me
as I will do the same with you - so that we both learn from each other.
My main point is the iPhone is a toy that can't possibly compare to a real
phone, just as a Barbie doll is a toy which can't possibly compare to a
real person - despite Apple's desperate marketing claims to the contrary.
The fact is that I've asked for many years on the iPhone newsgroups if they
(the participants) can find even a _single_ useful app functionality that
the iPhone does that Android doesn't already do - and they can't find
anything - even with the fact they're logging into the Apple mothership
tracking servers every day (which is how most of what they like gets done).
Notice there is no need to ask the opposite question, as I can list off
just the top of my head a dozen extremely useful things that Android apps
do that are impossible to do on any iPhone - which was my main point.
In terms of app functionality, the iPhone is crippled in what it can do.
It's a toy. It's like a pink barbie-doll. It's not a real thing.
Now if all you do on that iPhone is make calls, text, and play games, then
all you _need_ in a "smart" phone is a dumb phone that does those things.
But if you actually expect a "smart" phone to do useful things, then you'll
never purchase an iPhone because the iPhone is crippled in functionality.
Again, I completely get your point that if people use a "smart" phone as a
"dumb" phone, i.e., what I would call a toy, then the iPhone is just fine.
BTW, there is a very good reason for why the iPhone is just a toy phone.
a. Most functionality is created by developers (not Apple or Google)
b. Apple severely restricts what the app developers' apps can do
c. Google can't
This logical and sensible assessment of the facts is why I assess the
iPhone as a "dumb phone" (or more accurately, a "toy phone"), Arno.
Your point is that a "toy phone" is perfectly acceptable to Apple
aficionados, and i would fully and heartily agree with that statement.
However...
People like Alan Brown have to completely ignore that the iPhone is
crippeled, which means they can only then compare "comparable toy phones"
if they want to make the same statements that Alan Browne attempts to make
- which is unfair to Android since there is no comparable iPhone ever built
to even the least expensive (free, in my case, plus tax) Android phone.
Note the statement that I'm making is based on pure facts, Arno:
*Even my free Android phone is more powerful than any iPhone*
*ever sold in terms of what it does as a "smart phone".*
In terms of funcdtionality, there is no comparable iPhone.
Not even to my free Android phone.
Which makes all these resale-price comparisons absurd, Arno.
People like Alan Brown _pretend_ that an iPhone is a real phone.
Just as a little girl pretends the Barbie doll is a real person.
But the iPhone is crippled.
It can't do thousands of things that Android does.
And yet, Android does _everything_ that the iPhone could ever hope to do.
And there are good reasons for that fact - see the logic I said above.
a. Apple severely restricts the functionality of the iPhone
b. Both in hardware (e.g., slots & ports) and in software (see prior)
c. Google can't.
This is pure logic.
Pure sense.
My statements are all rational. Reasonable. Sensible. Accurate. Factual.
All others can do is _ignore_ that the iPhone is crippled in functionality.
In doing so, they completely ignore the iPhone is merely a crippled toy.
Which is, after all, what every little girl does with her Barbie doll.
But that doesn't mean a Barbie doll is comparable to a human, does it?
--
On Usenet you sometimes meet people who have a logical and sensible
opinion, which is based on the facts of the matter & not on advertising.
> [...]> There is no "comparable" iPhone to even my free Android phone.
>
> Why should it be so? iPhones have a completely different audience who
> does not need all these features.
You can always make a sensible logical statement when you converse with me
as I will do the same with you - so that we both learn from each other.
My main point is the iPhone is a toy that can't possibly compare to a real
phone, just as a Barbie doll is a toy which can't possibly compare to a
real person - despite Apple's desperate marketing claims to the contrary.
The fact is that I've asked for many years on the iPhone newsgroups if they
(the participants) can find even a _single_ useful app functionality that
the iPhone does that Android doesn't already do - and they can't find
anything - even with the fact they're logging into the Apple mothership
tracking servers every day (which is how most of what they like gets done).
Notice there is no need to ask the opposite question, as I can list off
just the top of my head a dozen extremely useful things that Android apps
do that are impossible to do on any iPhone - which was my main point.
In terms of app functionality, the iPhone is crippled in what it can do.
It's a toy. It's like a pink barbie-doll. It's not a real thing.
Now if all you do on that iPhone is make calls, text, and play games, then
all you _need_ in a "smart" phone is a dumb phone that does those things.
But if you actually expect a "smart" phone to do useful things, then you'll
never purchase an iPhone because the iPhone is crippled in functionality.
Again, I completely get your point that if people use a "smart" phone as a
"dumb" phone, i.e., what I would call a toy, then the iPhone is just fine.
BTW, there is a very good reason for why the iPhone is just a toy phone.
a. Most functionality is created by developers (not Apple or Google)
b. Apple severely restricts what the app developers' apps can do
c. Google can't
This logical and sensible assessment of the facts is why I assess the
iPhone as a "dumb phone" (or more accurately, a "toy phone"), Arno.
Your point is that a "toy phone" is perfectly acceptable to Apple
aficionados, and i would fully and heartily agree with that statement.
However...
People like Alan Brown have to completely ignore that the iPhone is
crippeled, which means they can only then compare "comparable toy phones"
if they want to make the same statements that Alan Browne attempts to make
- which is unfair to Android since there is no comparable iPhone ever built
to even the least expensive (free, in my case, plus tax) Android phone.
Note the statement that I'm making is based on pure facts, Arno:
*Even my free Android phone is more powerful than any iPhone*
*ever sold in terms of what it does as a "smart phone".*
In terms of funcdtionality, there is no comparable iPhone.
Not even to my free Android phone.
Which makes all these resale-price comparisons absurd, Arno.
People like Alan Brown _pretend_ that an iPhone is a real phone.
Just as a little girl pretends the Barbie doll is a real person.
But the iPhone is crippled.
It can't do thousands of things that Android does.
And yet, Android does _everything_ that the iPhone could ever hope to do.
And there are good reasons for that fact - see the logic I said above.
a. Apple severely restricts the functionality of the iPhone
b. Both in hardware (e.g., slots & ports) and in software (see prior)
c. Google can't.
This is pure logic.
Pure sense.
My statements are all rational. Reasonable. Sensible. Accurate. Factual.
All others can do is _ignore_ that the iPhone is crippled in functionality.
In doing so, they completely ignore the iPhone is merely a crippled toy.
Which is, after all, what every little girl does with her Barbie doll.
But that doesn't mean a Barbie doll is comparable to a human, does it?
--
On Usenet you sometimes meet people who have a logical and sensible
opinion, which is based on the facts of the matter & not on advertising.
Arno Welzel
6 nov 2023, 12:53:1106/11/23
a
Wally J, 2023-11-06 10:43:
> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>> [...]> There is no "comparable" iPhone to even my free Android phone.
>>
>> Why should it be so? iPhones have a completely different audience who
>> does not need all these features.
>
> Arno,
> You can always make a sensible logical statement when you converse with me
> as I will do the same with you - so that we both learn from each other.
>
> My main point is the iPhone is a toy that can't possibly compare to a real
> phone, just as a Barbie doll is a toy which can't possibly compare to a
> real person - despite Apple's desperate marketing claims to the contrary.
So what? If people like it this way - why not? I don't care.
Or do you want to tell all the people who own an iPhone that they should
dump it and get a "real" phone?
BTW: my private "daily driver" at the moment is a Google Pixel 6a and
the company I work for gave me an iPhone SE. The iPhone SE does the job
to be available when needed - and that's all that counts for the company
along with the possibility to easily manage all the company phones via
mobile device management which is literally impossible with Android with
most devices.
> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>> [...]> There is no "comparable" iPhone to even my free Android phone.
>>
>> Why should it be so? iPhones have a completely different audience who
>> does not need all these features.
>
> Arno,
> You can always make a sensible logical statement when you converse with me
> as I will do the same with you - so that we both learn from each other.
>
> My main point is the iPhone is a toy that can't possibly compare to a real
> phone, just as a Barbie doll is a toy which can't possibly compare to a
> real person - despite Apple's desperate marketing claims to the contrary.
Or do you want to tell all the people who own an iPhone that they should
dump it and get a "real" phone?
BTW: my private "daily driver" at the moment is a Google Pixel 6a and
the company I work for gave me an iPhone SE. The iPhone SE does the job
to be available when needed - and that's all that counts for the company
along with the possibility to easily manage all the company phones via
mobile device management which is literally impossible with Android with
most devices.
Wally J
6 nov 2023, 15:50:5806/11/23
a
Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>> My main point is the iPhone is a toy that can't possibly compare to a real
>> phone, just as a Barbie doll is a toy which can't possibly compare to a
>> real person - despite Apple's desperate marketing claims to the contrary.
>
> So what? If people like it this way - why not? I don't care.
Hi Arno,
I just now created this screenshot so that I can learn from you, especially
since you speak of the issue of managing the platforms for work & for play.
<https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
You seem to be intelligent and hence you can think rationally, where I am
never disagreeing that plenty of people don't need a phone to do much.
I am always reasonable in that I understand your point of view which is
that an iPhone, even though it's crippled, is all many people ever need.
Plenty of people don't need the privacy of the Tor Browser, for example.
Nor do people need the ability to watch YouTube videos freely without ads.
Plenty of people wouldn't know a firewall from a GPS spoofing app, I agree.
> Or do you want to tell all the people who own an iPhone that they should
> dump it and get a "real" phone?
I do not disagree with you that if all you do with the iPhone is text,
talk, watch videos and play games - it's a perfectly functional phone.
My point was only that there is no comparable iPhone to Android _if_ you
want do use the phone for more than just bare-minimum basic functionality.
And if bare-minimum functionality is all you need, then that's likely why
Apple concentrates on marketing the "YELLOW!" color & "TITANIUM!" body.
> BTW: my private "daily driver" at the moment is a Google Pixel 6a and
> the company I work for gave me an iPhone SE.
There are advantages to owning _both_ devices, which you and I do, but
remember most of the iKooks I'm responding to have never touched Android.
The only thing these iKooks know about Android is what Apple told them.
Apple can't compete on functionality so they aim for meaningless bling.
> The iPhone SE does the job to be available when needed - and that's all
> that counts for the company...
While my DD is currently a free Samsung Galaxy, rest assured I use an iPad
every single day & be advised I have plenty of iPhones & iPads in my house.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg> $15/mo iPhone,$0/mo Android
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees
There are actually some things an iPad does _better_ than Android, in fact.
For example, when you use Google Voice (which I use daily) Google _creates_
an account on Android but that doesn't happen when you use GV on the iPad.
> ... along with the possibility to easily manage all the company phones
about this work/personal profile stuff than I do - as I've never used it.
My Android has not only the basic ability of multiple users, but each user
can have a work profile (managed by the IT department) and a personal one.
This is extremely basic stuff, by the way, that every platform can do.
Right?
I just made this screenshot for you even as I've never used the work
profile myself, but I turned it on so that I could make this shot for you.
<https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
Can the iPhone do that basic multi-user multi-profile functionality?
If so, I can learn from you if you can help answer why not just have an
iPhone/Android set up for personal & work profiles where a work IT
department manages a work profile & a user manages their personal profile?
--
Usenet is an approach to find people who know more than you do, & then to
discuss problems with them such that you learn from their added knowledge.
>> My main point is the iPhone is a toy that can't possibly compare to a real
>> phone, just as a Barbie doll is a toy which can't possibly compare to a
>> real person - despite Apple's desperate marketing claims to the contrary.
>
> So what? If people like it this way - why not? I don't care.
I just now created this screenshot so that I can learn from you, especially
since you speak of the issue of managing the platforms for work & for play.
<https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
You seem to be intelligent and hence you can think rationally, where I am
never disagreeing that plenty of people don't need a phone to do much.
I am always reasonable in that I understand your point of view which is
that an iPhone, even though it's crippled, is all many people ever need.
Plenty of people don't need the privacy of the Tor Browser, for example.
Nor do people need the ability to watch YouTube videos freely without ads.
Plenty of people wouldn't know a firewall from a GPS spoofing app, I agree.
> Or do you want to tell all the people who own an iPhone that they should
> dump it and get a "real" phone?
talk, watch videos and play games - it's a perfectly functional phone.
My point was only that there is no comparable iPhone to Android _if_ you
want do use the phone for more than just bare-minimum basic functionality.
And if bare-minimum functionality is all you need, then that's likely why
Apple concentrates on marketing the "YELLOW!" color & "TITANIUM!" body.
> BTW: my private "daily driver" at the moment is a Google Pixel 6a and
> the company I work for gave me an iPhone SE.
remember most of the iKooks I'm responding to have never touched Android.
The only thing these iKooks know about Android is what Apple told them.
Apple can't compete on functionality so they aim for meaningless bling.
> The iPhone SE does the job to be available when needed - and that's all
While my DD is currently a free Samsung Galaxy, rest assured I use an iPad
every single day & be advised I have plenty of iPhones & iPads in my house.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg> $15/mo iPhone,$0/mo Android
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees
There are actually some things an iPad does _better_ than Android, in fact.
For example, when you use Google Voice (which I use daily) Google _creates_
an account on Android but that doesn't happen when you use GV on the iPad.
> ... along with the possibility to easily manage all the company phones
> via mobile device management which is literally impossible with Android
> with most devices.
Hmmm... maybe there's something to that, where you seem to know a lot more
> with most devices.
about this work/personal profile stuff than I do - as I've never used it.
My Android has not only the basic ability of multiple users, but each user
can have a work profile (managed by the IT department) and a personal one.
This is extremely basic stuff, by the way, that every platform can do.
Right?
I just made this screenshot for you even as I've never used the work
profile myself, but I turned it on so that I could make this shot for you.
<https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
Can the iPhone do that basic multi-user multi-profile functionality?
If so, I can learn from you if you can help answer why not just have an
iPhone/Android set up for personal & work profiles where a work IT
department manages a work profile & a user manages their personal profile?
--
Usenet is an approach to find people who know more than you do, & then to
discuss problems with them such that you learn from their added knowledge.
Arno Welzel
6 nov 2023, 18:46:1506/11/23
a
Wally J, 2023-11-06 21:50:
> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>>> My main point is the iPhone is a toy that can't possibly compare to a real
>>> phone, just as a Barbie doll is a toy which can't possibly compare to a
>>> real person - despite Apple's desperate marketing claims to the contrary.
>>
>> So what? If people like it this way - why not? I don't care.
>
> Hi Arno,
>
> I just now created this screenshot so that I can learn from you, especially
> since you speak of the issue of managing the platforms for work & for play.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
This is not what I am talking about.
Apple offers a centralized management for all comapny devices *without*
*any* interaction needed on the device itself. No "work" profile and
more important: no "private" profile where employess can do whatever
they want. On the iPhone SE I can do exactly *nothing* except using the
apps which are installed by the company. That's one of the reasons why
Apple is so widespread in this area: one manufacturer and one device
with a few different models. With Android you have many manufacturers
with many customized Android versions and unknown security issues which
are often the result of the customizations.
You may not remember that - but when Android was still quite new, HTC
managed to "implement" a massive security hole to their custom version:
<https://www.pcworld.com/article/477035/massive_security_vulnerability_in_htc_android_phones_claimed.html>
And all those "root hacks" in the past often worked by exploiting some
kind vulnerability in the custom recovery ROM of the manufacturer.
Nowadays this is often not neccessary any longer since even Google
officially allows you to unlock the bootloader and install an
alternative system like LineageOS - of course you have to give up things
like Google Pay then.
Yes, the situation with Android improved over the last 5 years and with
"Android Enterprise" there is a similar solution for Android as it
exists for iPhone. But Google started quite late with that, after
Samsung invented "Knox" first, and many companies still prefer Apple
because Android has this image of being a fragmented system where you
never know what a vendor implemented and what not.
[...]
use one as an employee and I don't care if the iPhone is comparable to
my Android device. At least the apps on the iPhone, which I got
installed, provide more than just "bare-minimum basic functionality".
For example I can access company files like Word, Excel etc.. and I can
do video calls and can transfer a running video call to my laptop
without interrupting it and vice versa. Very comfortable when I am in a
hurry to leave the office but I don't want to take my laptop with me.
Of course if you define the use of Tor browser as a requirement for
"advanced functionality" then yes, the iPhone is just a basic smartphone.
[...]
> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>>> My main point is the iPhone is a toy that can't possibly compare to a real
>>> phone, just as a Barbie doll is a toy which can't possibly compare to a
>>> real person - despite Apple's desperate marketing claims to the contrary.
>>
>> So what? If people like it this way - why not? I don't care.
>
> Hi Arno,
>
> I just now created this screenshot so that I can learn from you, especially
> since you speak of the issue of managing the platforms for work & for play.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
Apple offers a centralized management for all comapny devices *without*
*any* interaction needed on the device itself. No "work" profile and
more important: no "private" profile where employess can do whatever
they want. On the iPhone SE I can do exactly *nothing* except using the
apps which are installed by the company. That's one of the reasons why
Apple is so widespread in this area: one manufacturer and one device
with a few different models. With Android you have many manufacturers
with many customized Android versions and unknown security issues which
are often the result of the customizations.
You may not remember that - but when Android was still quite new, HTC
managed to "implement" a massive security hole to their custom version:
<https://www.pcworld.com/article/477035/massive_security_vulnerability_in_htc_android_phones_claimed.html>
And all those "root hacks" in the past often worked by exploiting some
kind vulnerability in the custom recovery ROM of the manufacturer.
Nowadays this is often not neccessary any longer since even Google
officially allows you to unlock the bootloader and install an
alternative system like LineageOS - of course you have to give up things
like Google Pay then.
Yes, the situation with Android improved over the last 5 years and with
"Android Enterprise" there is a similar solution for Android as it
exists for iPhone. But Google started quite late with that, after
Samsung invented "Knox" first, and many companies still prefer Apple
because Android has this image of being a fragmented system where you
never know what a vendor implemented and what not.
[...]
> My point was only that there is no comparable iPhone to Android _if_ you
> want do use the phone for more than just bare-minimum basic functionality.
So what? I don't care if iPhones are comparable with anything at all. I
> want do use the phone for more than just bare-minimum basic functionality.
use one as an employee and I don't care if the iPhone is comparable to
my Android device. At least the apps on the iPhone, which I got
installed, provide more than just "bare-minimum basic functionality".
For example I can access company files like Word, Excel etc.. and I can
do video calls and can transfer a running video call to my laptop
without interrupting it and vice versa. Very comfortable when I am in a
hurry to leave the office but I don't want to take my laptop with me.
Of course if you define the use of Tor browser as a requirement for
"advanced functionality" then yes, the iPhone is just a basic smartphone.
[...]
> If so, I can learn from you if you can help answer why not just have an
> iPhone/Android set up for personal & work profiles where a work IT
> department manages a work profile & a user manages their personal profile?
Depending on the requirements maybe because of security reasons.
> iPhone/Android set up for personal & work profiles where a work IT
> department manages a work profile & a user manages their personal profile?
badgolferman
6 nov 2023, 19:19:0006/11/23
a
Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>
>> ... along with the possibility to easily manage all the company phones
>> via mobile device management which is literally impossible with Android
>> with most devices.
>
> Hmmm... maybe there's something to that, where you seem to know a lot more
> about this work/personal profile stuff than I do - as I've never used it.
>
> My Android has not only the basic ability of multiple users, but each user
> can have a work profile (managed by the IT department) and a personal one.
>
> This is extremely basic stuff, by the way, that every platform can do.
> Right?
>
> I just made this screenshot for you even as I've never used the work
> profile myself, but I turned it on so that I could make this shot for you.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
>
> Can the iPhone do that basic multi-user multi-profile functionality?
>
> If so, I can learn from you if you can help answer why not just have an
> iPhone/Android set up for personal & work profiles where a work IT
> department manages a work profile & a user manages their personal profile?
Arlen, iPhones don’t have multiple user profiles like Androids do. Also MDM
>
>> ... along with the possibility to easily manage all the company phones
>> via mobile device management which is literally impossible with Android
>> with most devices.
>
> Hmmm... maybe there's something to that, where you seem to know a lot more
> about this work/personal profile stuff than I do - as I've never used it.
>
> My Android has not only the basic ability of multiple users, but each user
> can have a work profile (managed by the IT department) and a personal one.
>
> This is extremely basic stuff, by the way, that every platform can do.
> Right?
>
> I just made this screenshot for you even as I've never used the work
> profile myself, but I turned it on so that I could make this shot for you.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
>
> Can the iPhone do that basic multi-user multi-profile functionality?
>
> If so, I can learn from you if you can help answer why not just have an
> iPhone/Android set up for personal & work profiles where a work IT
> department manages a work profile & a user manages their personal profile?
is a completely different thing than multiple user profiles. I can’t tell
you all the details because I don’t know, but my work phone has MDM
installed.
MDM gives the IT Department the ability to remotely manage your phone
without any user interaction. If necessary they can wipe your phone clean
if you report it lost. MDM provides special certificates and automatic VPN
profiles which makes a phone become part of the approved network to the
point where you can open encrypted emails and access confidential servers.
There are many more things MDM can do which I can’t speak of intelligently.
I’m sure Android can do some of these things too but iPhone was approved
for restricted access long before Android was. I first had the BlackBerry
Storm but that was a piece of crap. I tried to avoid the iPhones but that
was my only option if I wanted remote access to email. This is why my first
iPhone was the 4 model. Android was not available from my employer because
it couldn’t be locked down. I think the option to have an Android phone
wasn’t available until 3-4 years ago and even then we couldn’t open
encrypted emails. I don’t know if that has changed since.
I’ve been using iPhones since 2009 and have been tempted to switch my
personal phone to an Android, but am getting too old and lazy to learn
something new. With all its limitations, I’ve adapted and the iPhone works
good enough for me.
Wolf Greenblatt
7 nov 2023, 20:28:5207/11/23
a
On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 16:50:52 -0400, Wally J wrote:
>>> My main point is the iPhone is a toy that can't possibly compare to a real
>>> phone, just as a Barbie doll is a toy which can't possibly compare to a
>>> real person - despite Apple's desperate marketing claims to the contrary.
>>
>> So what? If people like it this way - why not? I don't care.
>
> Hi Arno,
>
> I just now created this screenshot so that I can learn from you, especially
> since you speak of the issue of managing the platforms for work & for play.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
The iPhone can't do any of that multiuser stuff & persona/work profiles.
>>> My main point is the iPhone is a toy that can't possibly compare to a real
>>> phone, just as a Barbie doll is a toy which can't possibly compare to a
>>> real person - despite Apple's desperate marketing claims to the contrary.
>>
>> So what? If people like it this way - why not? I don't care.
>
> Hi Arno,
>
> I just now created this screenshot so that I can learn from you, especially
> since you speak of the issue of managing the platforms for work & for play.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
That's why security based corporations ban the use of iPhones as insecure.
Only Android has those capabilities of multiple users and multi-profiles.
Alan
7 nov 2023, 22:17:4607/11/23
a
Wally J
8 nov 2023, 09:49:2608/11/23
a
Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>> I just now created this screenshot so that I can learn from you, especially
>> since you speak of the issue of managing the platforms for work & for play.
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
>
> This is not what I am talking about.
Good.
My point is that you can't compare iOS to Android because iOS is crippled.
Remember, I am not like most people in that I discuss facts.
I make rational and sensible assessments of those facts.
Rest assured, I am very well aware that every common consumer operating
system _except iOS_ has the basic ability to set it up for multiple users.
It's only iOS that's crippled by complete lack of multi-user capability.
> Apple offers a centralized management for all comapny devices *without*
> *any* interaction needed on the device itself.
> No "work" profile and more important: no "private" profile where employess
> can do whatever they want.
Exactly my point.
There is no comparative iPhone to Android because iOS is born crippled.
> On the iPhone SE I can do exactly *nothing* except using the
> apps which are installed by the company.
Exactly my point. What's different about iOS is that it is born crippled.
> That's one of the reasons why
> Apple is so widespread in this area: one manufacturer and one device
> with a few different models.
> With Android you have many manufacturers
> with many customized Android versions and unknown security issues which
> are often the result of the customizations.
It's not just Android. It's _every other operating system_ except Apple's
crippled operating systems (although macOS isn't as crippled as iOS is).
Every common consumer operating system _except_ iOS, for example, can add
the privacy of the tor browser. It's only iOS that can't have that privacy.
<https://support.torproject.org/tormobile/tormobile-3/>
"Can I run Tor Browser on an iOS device? Apple requires all
browsers on iOS to use something called Webkit,
which prevents any iOS browser from having the same privacy
protections as Tor Browser."
You can't compare Android to iOS when iOS can't do thousands (upon
thousands) of useful things (like having any privacy for one).
Try to install GPS spoofing software on non-jailbroken iOS, Arno.
You can't have that kind of privacy on iOS.
Try installing a system-wide firewall on non-jailbroken iOS, Arno.
Again, you can't have that kind of privacy on iOS.
The point is there can never be any comparison of iOS to Android.
Simply because iOS is born a crippled (aka toy) operating system.
> You may not remember that - but when Android was still quite new, HTC
> managed to "implement" a massive security hole to their custom version:
>
> <https://www.pcworld.com/article/477035/massive_security_vulnerability_in_htc_android_phones_claimed.html>
>
> And all those "root hacks" in the past often worked by exploiting some
> kind vulnerability in the custom recovery ROM of the manufacturer.
> Nowadays this is often not neccessary any longer since even Google
> officially allows you to unlock the bootloader and install an
> alternative system like LineageOS - of course you have to give up things
> like Google Pay then.
Stop preaching iOS security please. It's bullshit. Leave that to marketing.
Anyway who tries to claim iOS is "more secure" is ignorant that iOS
historically has two to three times the number of zero-day holes.
And ten times the number of exploits in the wild.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>
Worse, Apple has _never_ supported more than one OS version at a time.
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
So please don't pull the security card as iOS is extremely insecure,
as is macOS (ever hear of WebKit flaws & numerous kernel flaws?).
BTW, if you don't know that iOS is exploited ten times more than
Android is, it means all you know is Apple's advertised bullshit.
> Yes, the situation with Android improved over the last 5 years and with
> "Android Enterprise" there is a similar solution for Android as it
> exists for iPhone. But Google started quite late with that, after
> Samsung invented "Knox" first, and many companies still prefer Apple
> because Android has this image of being a fragmented system where you
> never know what a vendor implemented and what not.
First off, Android is far more secure than iOS and if you don't know that,
then it means you're only looking at Apple's brilliant glossy brochures.
Secondly, Apple only fully supports a _single_ release - which - again - if
you don't know that - then you need to learn about how Apple really works.
Thirdly, because iOS is a primitive monolith, iOS has far more zero-day
holes than Android - which if you don't know that, then again, you need to
stop reading only Apple advertisements - and read about the numerous webkit
and kernel exploits.
By way of comparison, there has _never_ once been a webkit (duh) exploit in
Android but more importantly, never a Pegasus kernel exploit in Android.
These Pegasus kernel exploits only happen with iOS, Arno.
Look that up before you spouting bullshit about iOS security over Android.
Neither device is secure - but the number of zero-day holes for iOS is many
times that of Android and iOS has ten times the number of exploited holes.
>> My point was only that there is no comparable iPhone to Android _if_ you
>> want do use the phone for more than just bare-minimum basic functionality.
>
> So what? I don't care if iPhones are comparable with anything at all.
Jeezus. The point is not whether you "care" about iOS being crippled.
Many people are born crippled, Arno - and it doesn't matter that you don't
care that they're born crippled - because - they're still crippled. Right?
The simple point is that iOS is born crippled.
The point is NOT whether or not you care that iOS is born crippled.
Think about that please.
I'm not trying to make you care about the facts.
I'm trying to make you understand the facts.
If you don't understand how crippled iOS is, then you can't understand any
basic comparison statement between any Android phone and any iOS iPhone.
> I
> use one as an employee and I don't care if the iPhone is comparable to
> my Android device.
Again, it's not whether you care that people are crippled.
It's the fact that people are crippled that matters.
You can't have a "race" for example, between a crippled person and a person
who isn't crippled, right? It's just not possible to compare the results.
Same with Android versus iOS.
There is no comparative iPhone to Android because iOS is born crippled.
> At least the apps on the iPhone, which I got
> installed, provide more than just "bare-minimum basic functionality".
I am always sensible & reasonable Arno, but I refuse to ignore facts.
I will openly agree with you that if all you with an iPhone is talk, text,
watch videos and play games - then the iPhone is a perfectly good system.
But if you want to do more than the bare minimum basics, then you will
never be able to compare even the most expensive iPhone to the cheapest
Android out there - simply because it's a fact that iOS is born crippled.
You can't simply change that fact by not caring about it any more than you
can change the fact someone was born crippled by not caring about them.
There is no comparison possible between any iPhone and any Android phone
unless you first, & foremost, agree to ignore that the iPhone is crippled.
Once you ignore the iPhone is crippled _then_ you can compare platforms.
> For example I can access company files like Word, Excel etc.. and I can
> do video calls and can transfer a running video call to my laptop
> without interrupting it and vice versa. Very comfortable when I am in a
> hurry to leave the office but I don't want to take my laptop with me.
As I openly said many times, Arno, I'm never going to dispute a basic fact.
Only fools do that (that's why they're fools).
If all you do on an iPhone is absolute basics, then it works fine for you.
> Of course if you define the use of Tor browser as a requirement for
> "advanced functionality" then yes, the iPhone is just a basic smartphone.
Arno - please do not play the game the ignorant iKooks do by saying:
"nobody wants that" & "nobody needs that".
*simply because only iOS can't do it*
For you to claim nobody wants any privacy on an iPhone is patently absurd.
It's your way of coping with reality.
Just like someone who says nobody needs legs so a crippled person can do
whatever a non-crippled person can do. It's your way of coping with facts.
Why not just accept the facts, Arno?
Why must you claim nobody wants privacy on an iPhone, Arno?
That's absurd.
Besides, when I say the iPhone is crippled, it's not just the fact that
there's no privacy possible on the iPhone and yet that privacy is possible
on every other common consumer operating system (yes, even on the macOS
it's possible).
The reason is there's no torrenting possible on the iPhone Arno.
Yet every other consumer operating system can torrent (yes, even macOS).
There's no graphical Wi-Fi debugging possible on an iPhone, Arno.
And yet, that's possible on every other operating system (even macOS Arno).
There's no alternative app-search engine possible on the iPhone, Arno.
Meanwhile, nobody uses the Google Play Store search engine on Android who
knows anything about powerful regex searches available on Android.
Speaking of the lack of GUIs on iOS, there's no way to graphically download
YouTube videos on the iPhone without any advertisements & skipping the
over-18 restrictions, Arno - and yet that's possible on all other common
consumer operating systems (yes, yet again that's possible on macOS).
Why is it that only iOS lacks what every other consumer OS can do, Arno?
There's no autorecording of phone calls possible on an iPhone, Arno.
And yet that's possible on Android.
There's no ability to change most of the defaults on iOS such as the
default launcher or the default sms/mms messenger, Arno. Android has that.
There's no ability on iOS to set up your homescreen the way you'd want to,
Arno - and yet Android can put the folders on any grid they want, and they
can have multiple launch icons and they can change the names (which is
useful when multiple apps have the same short name, for example).
Hell, on iOS there's no (sensible) way to set it up without having to log
into the Apple mothership tracking servers for the rest of your life,
where, by way of huge contrast, Android works just fine sans an account.
I could go on and on (and on and on and on) about basic functionality that
is lacking on iOS that you'd have to say for each and every one that
"nobody wants that" & "nobody needs that".
*simply because only iOS can't do it*
My point is NOT to deprecate iOS, Arno.
Look at the title of this thread, Arno.
My point is that when Alan Browne tries to "compare" his vaunted iPhone
with his cherry-picked Android copies - he completely ignores the fact that
it's impossible to compare a crippled person to a person who has legs.
The fact is, iOS is crippled.
Only after you _ignore_ that iOS is crippled ... can you begin to compare
anything on iOS with its counterpart on Android.
Luckily, the camera hardware is possible to compare because camera hardware
on iOS is NOT crippled - but much hardware on iOS _is_ crippled (e.g., lack
of slots & ports - which most Android have simply because they're useful).
>> If so, I can learn from you if you can help answer why not just have an
>> iPhone/Android set up for personal & work profiles where a work IT
>> department manages a work profile & a user manages their personal profile?
>
> Depending on the requirements maybe because of security reasons.
I am always logical and sensible, Arno.
Because I am intelligent enough to comprehend facts.
I will agree with you when you have your facts correct.
I will disagree with you when you don't.
I can learn from you.
I can learn from anyone who knows more than I do, in fact.
I'm never going to make an illogical or incorrect statement, for if I do,
you can call me out on it and I will agree with you if you're right.
Don't believe me?
Ask badgolferman if I ever admit I'm wrong, Arno.
*Updating the "wrong - by badgolferman" thread from May 29, 2019*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/Pg9fi_sV3CU/>
I am extremely confident in myself because I am extremely well educated,
and reasonably intelligent, and, as a result, I'm well informed and I make
assessments based on facts - so I'm quite happy to openly admit when/if I'm
wrong as my ego isn't involved in whether I'm right or not - but what I
know and can do.
And that's my point about there being no comparison possible between any
iPhone and even the least expensive Android - in what the device can do.
Only if you first & foremost agree to ignore that the iPhone is crippled in
common functionality can you then even _begin_ to compare it to Android.
If you disagree, why not tell me something really powerful & useful that
you can do on your iPhone but I can't possibly do on my free Android phone.
--
I'm always willing to listen and learn from others as the whole point of
Usenet is to find people who know more about the subject matter than I do.
>> I just now created this screenshot so that I can learn from you, especially
>> since you speak of the issue of managing the platforms for work & for play.
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
>
> This is not what I am talking about.
My point is that you can't compare iOS to Android because iOS is crippled.
Remember, I am not like most people in that I discuss facts.
I make rational and sensible assessments of those facts.
Rest assured, I am very well aware that every common consumer operating
system _except iOS_ has the basic ability to set it up for multiple users.
It's only iOS that's crippled by complete lack of multi-user capability.
> Apple offers a centralized management for all comapny devices *without*
> *any* interaction needed on the device itself.
> No "work" profile and more important: no "private" profile where employess
> can do whatever they want.
There is no comparative iPhone to Android because iOS is born crippled.
> On the iPhone SE I can do exactly *nothing* except using the
> apps which are installed by the company.
> That's one of the reasons why
> Apple is so widespread in this area: one manufacturer and one device
> with a few different models.
> With Android you have many manufacturers
> with many customized Android versions and unknown security issues which
> are often the result of the customizations.
crippled operating systems (although macOS isn't as crippled as iOS is).
Every common consumer operating system _except_ iOS, for example, can add
the privacy of the tor browser. It's only iOS that can't have that privacy.
<https://support.torproject.org/tormobile/tormobile-3/>
"Can I run Tor Browser on an iOS device? Apple requires all
browsers on iOS to use something called Webkit,
which prevents any iOS browser from having the same privacy
protections as Tor Browser."
You can't compare Android to iOS when iOS can't do thousands (upon
thousands) of useful things (like having any privacy for one).
Try to install GPS spoofing software on non-jailbroken iOS, Arno.
You can't have that kind of privacy on iOS.
Try installing a system-wide firewall on non-jailbroken iOS, Arno.
Again, you can't have that kind of privacy on iOS.
The point is there can never be any comparison of iOS to Android.
Simply because iOS is born a crippled (aka toy) operating system.
> You may not remember that - but when Android was still quite new, HTC
> managed to "implement" a massive security hole to their custom version:
>
> <https://www.pcworld.com/article/477035/massive_security_vulnerability_in_htc_android_phones_claimed.html>
>
> And all those "root hacks" in the past often worked by exploiting some
> kind vulnerability in the custom recovery ROM of the manufacturer.
> Nowadays this is often not neccessary any longer since even Google
> officially allows you to unlock the bootloader and install an
> alternative system like LineageOS - of course you have to give up things
> like Google Pay then.
Anyway who tries to claim iOS is "more secure" is ignorant that iOS
historically has two to three times the number of zero-day holes.
And ten times the number of exploits in the wild.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>
Worse, Apple has _never_ supported more than one OS version at a time.
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
So please don't pull the security card as iOS is extremely insecure,
as is macOS (ever hear of WebKit flaws & numerous kernel flaws?).
BTW, if you don't know that iOS is exploited ten times more than
Android is, it means all you know is Apple's advertised bullshit.
> Yes, the situation with Android improved over the last 5 years and with
> "Android Enterprise" there is a similar solution for Android as it
> exists for iPhone. But Google started quite late with that, after
> Samsung invented "Knox" first, and many companies still prefer Apple
> because Android has this image of being a fragmented system where you
> never know what a vendor implemented and what not.
then it means you're only looking at Apple's brilliant glossy brochures.
Secondly, Apple only fully supports a _single_ release - which - again - if
you don't know that - then you need to learn about how Apple really works.
Thirdly, because iOS is a primitive monolith, iOS has far more zero-day
holes than Android - which if you don't know that, then again, you need to
stop reading only Apple advertisements - and read about the numerous webkit
and kernel exploits.
By way of comparison, there has _never_ once been a webkit (duh) exploit in
Android but more importantly, never a Pegasus kernel exploit in Android.
These Pegasus kernel exploits only happen with iOS, Arno.
Look that up before you spouting bullshit about iOS security over Android.
Neither device is secure - but the number of zero-day holes for iOS is many
times that of Android and iOS has ten times the number of exploited holes.
>> My point was only that there is no comparable iPhone to Android _if_ you
>> want do use the phone for more than just bare-minimum basic functionality.
>
> So what? I don't care if iPhones are comparable with anything at all.
Many people are born crippled, Arno - and it doesn't matter that you don't
care that they're born crippled - because - they're still crippled. Right?
The simple point is that iOS is born crippled.
The point is NOT whether or not you care that iOS is born crippled.
Think about that please.
I'm not trying to make you care about the facts.
I'm trying to make you understand the facts.
If you don't understand how crippled iOS is, then you can't understand any
basic comparison statement between any Android phone and any iOS iPhone.
> I
> use one as an employee and I don't care if the iPhone is comparable to
> my Android device.
It's the fact that people are crippled that matters.
You can't have a "race" for example, between a crippled person and a person
who isn't crippled, right? It's just not possible to compare the results.
Same with Android versus iOS.
There is no comparative iPhone to Android because iOS is born crippled.
> At least the apps on the iPhone, which I got
> installed, provide more than just "bare-minimum basic functionality".
I will openly agree with you that if all you with an iPhone is talk, text,
watch videos and play games - then the iPhone is a perfectly good system.
But if you want to do more than the bare minimum basics, then you will
never be able to compare even the most expensive iPhone to the cheapest
Android out there - simply because it's a fact that iOS is born crippled.
You can't simply change that fact by not caring about it any more than you
can change the fact someone was born crippled by not caring about them.
There is no comparison possible between any iPhone and any Android phone
unless you first, & foremost, agree to ignore that the iPhone is crippled.
Once you ignore the iPhone is crippled _then_ you can compare platforms.
> For example I can access company files like Word, Excel etc.. and I can
> do video calls and can transfer a running video call to my laptop
> without interrupting it and vice versa. Very comfortable when I am in a
> hurry to leave the office but I don't want to take my laptop with me.
Only fools do that (that's why they're fools).
If all you do on an iPhone is absolute basics, then it works fine for you.
> Of course if you define the use of Tor browser as a requirement for
> "advanced functionality" then yes, the iPhone is just a basic smartphone.
"nobody wants that" & "nobody needs that".
*simply because only iOS can't do it*
For you to claim nobody wants any privacy on an iPhone is patently absurd.
It's your way of coping with reality.
Just like someone who says nobody needs legs so a crippled person can do
whatever a non-crippled person can do. It's your way of coping with facts.
Why not just accept the facts, Arno?
Why must you claim nobody wants privacy on an iPhone, Arno?
That's absurd.
Besides, when I say the iPhone is crippled, it's not just the fact that
there's no privacy possible on the iPhone and yet that privacy is possible
on every other common consumer operating system (yes, even on the macOS
it's possible).
The reason is there's no torrenting possible on the iPhone Arno.
Yet every other consumer operating system can torrent (yes, even macOS).
There's no graphical Wi-Fi debugging possible on an iPhone, Arno.
And yet, that's possible on every other operating system (even macOS Arno).
There's no alternative app-search engine possible on the iPhone, Arno.
Meanwhile, nobody uses the Google Play Store search engine on Android who
knows anything about powerful regex searches available on Android.
Speaking of the lack of GUIs on iOS, there's no way to graphically download
YouTube videos on the iPhone without any advertisements & skipping the
over-18 restrictions, Arno - and yet that's possible on all other common
consumer operating systems (yes, yet again that's possible on macOS).
Why is it that only iOS lacks what every other consumer OS can do, Arno?
There's no autorecording of phone calls possible on an iPhone, Arno.
And yet that's possible on Android.
There's no ability to change most of the defaults on iOS such as the
default launcher or the default sms/mms messenger, Arno. Android has that.
There's no ability on iOS to set up your homescreen the way you'd want to,
Arno - and yet Android can put the folders on any grid they want, and they
can have multiple launch icons and they can change the names (which is
useful when multiple apps have the same short name, for example).
Hell, on iOS there's no (sensible) way to set it up without having to log
into the Apple mothership tracking servers for the rest of your life,
where, by way of huge contrast, Android works just fine sans an account.
I could go on and on (and on and on and on) about basic functionality that
is lacking on iOS that you'd have to say for each and every one that
"nobody wants that" & "nobody needs that".
*simply because only iOS can't do it*
My point is NOT to deprecate iOS, Arno.
Look at the title of this thread, Arno.
My point is that when Alan Browne tries to "compare" his vaunted iPhone
with his cherry-picked Android copies - he completely ignores the fact that
it's impossible to compare a crippled person to a person who has legs.
The fact is, iOS is crippled.
Only after you _ignore_ that iOS is crippled ... can you begin to compare
anything on iOS with its counterpart on Android.
Luckily, the camera hardware is possible to compare because camera hardware
on iOS is NOT crippled - but much hardware on iOS _is_ crippled (e.g., lack
of slots & ports - which most Android have simply because they're useful).
>> If so, I can learn from you if you can help answer why not just have an
>> iPhone/Android set up for personal & work profiles where a work IT
>> department manages a work profile & a user manages their personal profile?
>
> Depending on the requirements maybe because of security reasons.
Because I am intelligent enough to comprehend facts.
I will agree with you when you have your facts correct.
I will disagree with you when you don't.
I can learn from you.
I can learn from anyone who knows more than I do, in fact.
I'm never going to make an illogical or incorrect statement, for if I do,
you can call me out on it and I will agree with you if you're right.
Don't believe me?
Ask badgolferman if I ever admit I'm wrong, Arno.
*Updating the "wrong - by badgolferman" thread from May 29, 2019*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/Pg9fi_sV3CU/>
I am extremely confident in myself because I am extremely well educated,
and reasonably intelligent, and, as a result, I'm well informed and I make
assessments based on facts - so I'm quite happy to openly admit when/if I'm
wrong as my ego isn't involved in whether I'm right or not - but what I
know and can do.
And that's my point about there being no comparison possible between any
iPhone and even the least expensive Android - in what the device can do.
Only if you first & foremost agree to ignore that the iPhone is crippled in
common functionality can you then even _begin_ to compare it to Android.
If you disagree, why not tell me something really powerful & useful that
you can do on your iPhone but I can't possibly do on my free Android phone.
--
I'm always willing to listen and learn from others as the whole point of
Usenet is to find people who know more about the subject matter than I do.
Carlos E. R.
8 nov 2023, 10:03:0308/11/23
a
On 2023-11-08 15:49, Wally J wrote:
> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>>> I just now created this screenshot so that I can learn from you, especially
>>> since you speak of the issue of managing the platforms for work & for play.
>>> <https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
>>
>> This is not what I am talking about.
>
> Good.
> My point is that you can't compare iOS to Android because iOS is crippled.
>
> Remember, I am not like most people in that I discuss facts.
> I make rational and sensible assessments of those facts.
>
> Rest assured, I am very well aware that every common consumer operating
> system _except iOS_ has the basic ability to set it up for multiple users.
>
> It's only iOS that's crippled by complete lack of multi-user capability.
>
>> Apple offers a centralized management for all comapny devices *without*
>> *any* interaction needed on the device itself.
>> No "work" profile and more important: no "private" profile where employess
>> can do whatever they want.
>
> Exactly my point.
> There is no comparative iPhone to Android because iOS is born crippled.
>
>> On the iPhone SE I can do exactly *nothing* except using the
>> apps which are installed by the company.
>
> Exactly my point. What's different about iOS is that it is born crippled.
>
No, Arlen, no.
> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>>> I just now created this screenshot so that I can learn from you, especially
>>> since you speak of the issue of managing the platforms for work & for play.
>>> <https://i.postimg.cc/4NSK8690/profiles01.jpg> Personal/Work profiles
>>
>> This is not what I am talking about.
>
> Good.
> My point is that you can't compare iOS to Android because iOS is crippled.
>
> Remember, I am not like most people in that I discuss facts.
> I make rational and sensible assessments of those facts.
>
> Rest assured, I am very well aware that every common consumer operating
> system _except iOS_ has the basic ability to set it up for multiple users.
>
> It's only iOS that's crippled by complete lack of multi-user capability.
>
>> Apple offers a centralized management for all comapny devices *without*
>> *any* interaction needed on the device itself.
>> No "work" profile and more important: no "private" profile where employess
>> can do whatever they want.
>
> Exactly my point.
> There is no comparative iPhone to Android because iOS is born crippled.
>
>> On the iPhone SE I can do exactly *nothing* except using the
>> apps which are installed by the company.
>
> Exactly my point. What's different about iOS is that it is born crippled.
>
This is needed feature for an enterprise phone, and you saying that it
is crippled is ridiculous. Instead, you have to find some Android
supplier that allows doing the exact same thing.
This is an undeniable bonus point for iphones.
Windows, for instance, also offer similar features.
The only thing you can do to counteract the argument is find how to do
the same thing on Android. What company can I buy from, a box of Android
phones with a centralized computer to rule them all, in a manner that no
user can do any customization or change if not expliticly allowed by the
central controller.
Otherwise, be a gentleman and concede the point.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
Wally J
8 nov 2023, 10:05:2608/11/23
a
badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote
> iPhones don't have multiple user profiles like Androids do.
Hi badgolferman,
Don't worry. I know full well that iOS is crippled. It was rhetorical.
> Also MDM
> is a completely different thing than multiple user profiles. I can't tell
> you all the details because I don't know, but my work phone has MDM
> installed.
As always, I can learn from others and I am never afraid to admit when I
don't know something. I have no idea what MDM is at the moment.
> MDM gives the IT Department the ability to remotely manage your phone
> without any user interaction. If necessary they can wipe your phone clean
> if you report it lost. MDM provides special certificates and automatic VPN
> profiles which makes a phone become part of the approved network to the
> point where you can open encrypted emails and access confidential servers.
> There are many more things MDM can do which I can't speak of intelligently.
While I can see how that's useful, I think Android profiles do the same
thing but I must admit I haven't been in the corporate world since I
retired so I'd have to look up how they do it.
However...
Android is so much more powerful than the crippled iOS that I can't imagine
it not being possible - as we have to keep in mind what iOS is and isn't.
Apple restricts what iOS can do.
Google can't restrict what Android can do.
Given that assessment of fact, I would assume there's nothing a company can
do with MDM that can't be done on Android - but let's see what others
think.
> I'm sure Android can do some of these things too but iPhone was approved
> for restricted access long before Android was.
I would think, given the iPhone is half the US market, all companies have
to learn how to deal with them - just as we learned how to deal with Linux
living alongside of macOS and Android when I was doing IT stuff long ago.
> I first had the BlackBerry
> Storm but that was a piece of crap.
I had a corporate Blackberry also. The clit finally failed. Then I had an
iPhone that I had to jailbreak to get it to work with T-Mobile. And then I
found Android. But I still have, as you know, my daily drive iPad even
today. That's how I know what happens if you stop logging into the Apple
mothership tracking servers. I tried it.
What I love about the iPad is that Google Voice does not create a Google
Account on the device when you use it. On Android GV creates an account.
My Android phone has no accounts (no Samsung accounts, no Google accounts).
And it works just fine as I search for and download apps off the Google
Play Store repository without having to create an account - which is
something very useful and very private that is impossible to do with iOS.
Worse, Apple inserts a unique mothership tracking ID into every IPA you
install, while Google does not do that.
It's amazing how little privacy there is on iOS but since Apple
"advertises" they have privacy, people who don't know anything think it's
more private than Android - which is why I chastised Arno when he started
alluding to the fact he doesn't care about privacy when using an iPhone.
He might not care about the privacy inherent in the Tor Browser for
example, but that privacy is available on every platform _except_ on iOS.
> I tried to avoid the iPhones but that
> was my only option if I wanted remote access to email. This is why my first
> iPhone was the 4 model. Android was not available from my employer because
> it couldn't be locked down. I think the option to have an Android phone
> wasn't available until 3-4 years ago and even then we couldn't open
> encrypted emails. I don't know if that has changed since.
Again, I doubt you'll ever find anything that is on the iPhone that isn't
already on Android simply because developers create most content and Apple
severely restricts what developers can do... while Google can't.
It's really that simple the difference between iOS and Android.
But that's why there can never be a comparable iPhone to any Android phone.
> I've been using iPhones since 2009 and have been tempted to switch my
> personal phone to an Android, but am getting too old and lazy to learn
> something new. With all its limitations, I've adapted and the iPhone works
> good enough for me.
My wife and kids and I all use Android and iOS interchangeably.
Just like I use Windows and Linux interchangeably.
It's _why_ I know that there can never be a fair comparison of even the
most expensive iPhone to even the least expensive (free in my case)
Android.
The reason is the iPhone is born crippled in potential app functionality.
Android is not.
Only if we first and foremost agree to ignore that the iPhone is crippled
in app functionality can we then begin to compare an iPhone with Android.
For the camera, other than the lack of the ability to run utilities and the
severely constraining lack of the sd slot, most of what a camera does on an
iPhone can be compared to what a camera does on Android.
But even then, the lack of app functionality will hurt the iPhone.
And the lack of the iPhone hardware (e.g., slots & ports) hurts also.
As always, the iPhone is so severely crippled, even in the camera
functionality, that you have to ignore that it's crippled to even begin to
compare the two devices in output.
And that's my point.
Most people don't understand a word I said above.
I hope you and Arno do.
Because I care about sensible people understanding logical thought
processes.
--
What I care about is learning from others & discussing topics of interest
with others who are capable of comprehending the topics that we discuss.
> iPhones don't have multiple user profiles like Androids do.
Don't worry. I know full well that iOS is crippled. It was rhetorical.
> Also MDM
> is a completely different thing than multiple user profiles. I can't tell
> you all the details because I don't know, but my work phone has MDM
> installed.
don't know something. I have no idea what MDM is at the moment.
> MDM gives the IT Department the ability to remotely manage your phone
> without any user interaction. If necessary they can wipe your phone clean
> if you report it lost. MDM provides special certificates and automatic VPN
> profiles which makes a phone become part of the approved network to the
> point where you can open encrypted emails and access confidential servers.
> There are many more things MDM can do which I can't speak of intelligently.
thing but I must admit I haven't been in the corporate world since I
retired so I'd have to look up how they do it.
However...
Android is so much more powerful than the crippled iOS that I can't imagine
it not being possible - as we have to keep in mind what iOS is and isn't.
Apple restricts what iOS can do.
Google can't restrict what Android can do.
Given that assessment of fact, I would assume there's nothing a company can
do with MDM that can't be done on Android - but let's see what others
think.
> I'm sure Android can do some of these things too but iPhone was approved
> for restricted access long before Android was.
to learn how to deal with them - just as we learned how to deal with Linux
living alongside of macOS and Android when I was doing IT stuff long ago.
> I first had the BlackBerry
> Storm but that was a piece of crap.
iPhone that I had to jailbreak to get it to work with T-Mobile. And then I
found Android. But I still have, as you know, my daily drive iPad even
today. That's how I know what happens if you stop logging into the Apple
mothership tracking servers. I tried it.
What I love about the iPad is that Google Voice does not create a Google
Account on the device when you use it. On Android GV creates an account.
My Android phone has no accounts (no Samsung accounts, no Google accounts).
And it works just fine as I search for and download apps off the Google
Play Store repository without having to create an account - which is
something very useful and very private that is impossible to do with iOS.
Worse, Apple inserts a unique mothership tracking ID into every IPA you
install, while Google does not do that.
It's amazing how little privacy there is on iOS but since Apple
"advertises" they have privacy, people who don't know anything think it's
more private than Android - which is why I chastised Arno when he started
alluding to the fact he doesn't care about privacy when using an iPhone.
He might not care about the privacy inherent in the Tor Browser for
example, but that privacy is available on every platform _except_ on iOS.
> I tried to avoid the iPhones but that
> was my only option if I wanted remote access to email. This is why my first
> iPhone was the 4 model. Android was not available from my employer because
> it couldn't be locked down. I think the option to have an Android phone
> wasn't available until 3-4 years ago and even then we couldn't open
> encrypted emails. I don't know if that has changed since.
already on Android simply because developers create most content and Apple
severely restricts what developers can do... while Google can't.
It's really that simple the difference between iOS and Android.
But that's why there can never be a comparable iPhone to any Android phone.
> I've been using iPhones since 2009 and have been tempted to switch my
> personal phone to an Android, but am getting too old and lazy to learn
> something new. With all its limitations, I've adapted and the iPhone works
> good enough for me.
Just like I use Windows and Linux interchangeably.
It's _why_ I know that there can never be a fair comparison of even the
most expensive iPhone to even the least expensive (free in my case)
Android.
The reason is the iPhone is born crippled in potential app functionality.
Android is not.
Only if we first and foremost agree to ignore that the iPhone is crippled
in app functionality can we then begin to compare an iPhone with Android.
For the camera, other than the lack of the ability to run utilities and the
severely constraining lack of the sd slot, most of what a camera does on an
iPhone can be compared to what a camera does on Android.
But even then, the lack of app functionality will hurt the iPhone.
And the lack of the iPhone hardware (e.g., slots & ports) hurts also.
As always, the iPhone is so severely crippled, even in the camera
functionality, that you have to ignore that it's crippled to even begin to
compare the two devices in output.
And that's my point.
Most people don't understand a word I said above.
I hope you and Arno do.
Because I care about sensible people understanding logical thought
processes.
--
What I care about is learning from others & discussing topics of interest
with others who are capable of comprehending the topics that we discuss.
Wally J
8 nov 2023, 10:39:3408/11/23
a
"Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>> Exactly my point. What's different about iOS is that it is born crippled.
>>
>
My point of view is a very adult point of view - based on the facts.
Not on marketing bullshit.
The point of this thread is that no comparison is possible between even the
most expensive iPhone and even the least expensive Android phone, simply
because the Android phone can _always_ do more than the iPhone ever can do.
The reason for this is quite simple:
1. Most functionality is added by developers
2. Apple severely restricts what developers can add
3. Google can't
Therefore, the iPhone choices will _always_ be crippled in terms of
hardware and software choices compared to Android - so if you wish to
compare Apple to Android - you first have to agree to ignore than the
iPhone is born crippled.
It's no different than agreeing to ignore that a child is crippled when you
let him play on the elementary school soccer teach in his wheelchair and
then when you compare the "best kicker" on the team, including that child.
Only after you agree to ignore that the iPhone is crippled in hardware &
software, can you even begin to compare it to "equivalent" Android phones.
That's just basic sensible logic, Carlos.
Nothing fancy in my argument.
> Instead, you have to find some Android
> supplier that allows doing the exact same thing.
I have given this challenge many times on the Apple newsgroups, Carlos.
In fact, it's in the closing statement to the exact post you replied to:
*If you disagree, why not tell me something really powerful & useful*
*that you do on your iPhone that I can't possibly do on any Android*
> This is an undeniable bonus point for iphones.
> Windows, for instance, also offer similar features.
Instead of claiming that _because the iPhone is crippled_ it can do less
than Android (and that is your bonus?) why not answer the question above?
> The only thing you can do to counteract the argument is find how to do
> the same thing on Android.
People love the iPhone so much that their best argument is that it does
nothing - and that - in and of itself - is what they say it does best?
> What company can I buy from, a box of Android
> phones with a centralized computer to rule them all, in a manner that no
> user can do any customization or change if not expliticly allowed by the
> central controller.
As I explained to badgolferman, I have been retired for 15 years, so I'm
out of the corporate world - but he's in the corporate world - so you might
want to ask badgolfermand and Arno what _their_ company does with Androids.
Or are you claiming that companies don't let their employees use Android
phones simply because Android phones do far more than iPhones can ever do?
> Otherwise, be a gentleman and concede the point.
You have merely alluded to a point, which is that because you can't do
anything useful on an iPhone, you feel that the crippled iPhone is, in and
of itself, a "bonus" for corporations who don't want you doing anything.
If so, I will agree to your stated point quite easily as it's less effort
on the corporate part to cripple a phone that was already born crippled.
It's like you saying that it's less effort for an enemy to cripple your
soldiers attacking them if they're already crippled soldiers from birth.
But if you're only claim to fame for the iPhone is it can't do anything
useful - then that supports my fundamental statement that there is no
possible comparison between any iPhone and any Android until and unless you
first always agree to completely ignore the iPhone is crippled at birth.
--
People love the iPhone so much that their best argument is that it does
nothing - and that - in and of itself - is what they say it does best.
>> Exactly my point. What's different about iOS is that it is born crippled.
>>
>
> This is needed feature for an enterprise phone, and you saying that it
> is crippled is ridiculous.
Hi Carlos,
> is crippled is ridiculous.
My point of view is a very adult point of view - based on the facts.
Not on marketing bullshit.
The point of this thread is that no comparison is possible between even the
most expensive iPhone and even the least expensive Android phone, simply
because the Android phone can _always_ do more than the iPhone ever can do.
The reason for this is quite simple:
1. Most functionality is added by developers
2. Apple severely restricts what developers can add
3. Google can't
Therefore, the iPhone choices will _always_ be crippled in terms of
hardware and software choices compared to Android - so if you wish to
compare Apple to Android - you first have to agree to ignore than the
iPhone is born crippled.
It's no different than agreeing to ignore that a child is crippled when you
let him play on the elementary school soccer teach in his wheelchair and
then when you compare the "best kicker" on the team, including that child.
Only after you agree to ignore that the iPhone is crippled in hardware &
software, can you even begin to compare it to "equivalent" Android phones.
That's just basic sensible logic, Carlos.
Nothing fancy in my argument.
> Instead, you have to find some Android
> supplier that allows doing the exact same thing.
In fact, it's in the closing statement to the exact post you replied to:
*If you disagree, why not tell me something really powerful & useful*
*that you do on your iPhone that I can't possibly do on any Android*
> This is an undeniable bonus point for iphones.
> Windows, for instance, also offer similar features.
than Android (and that is your bonus?) why not answer the question above?
> The only thing you can do to counteract the argument is find how to do
> the same thing on Android.
nothing - and that - in and of itself - is what they say it does best?
> What company can I buy from, a box of Android
> phones with a centralized computer to rule them all, in a manner that no
> user can do any customization or change if not expliticly allowed by the
> central controller.
out of the corporate world - but he's in the corporate world - so you might
want to ask badgolfermand and Arno what _their_ company does with Androids.
Or are you claiming that companies don't let their employees use Android
phones simply because Android phones do far more than iPhones can ever do?
> Otherwise, be a gentleman and concede the point.
anything useful on an iPhone, you feel that the crippled iPhone is, in and
of itself, a "bonus" for corporations who don't want you doing anything.
If so, I will agree to your stated point quite easily as it's less effort
on the corporate part to cripple a phone that was already born crippled.
It's like you saying that it's less effort for an enemy to cripple your
soldiers attacking them if they're already crippled soldiers from birth.
But if you're only claim to fame for the iPhone is it can't do anything
useful - then that supports my fundamental statement that there is no
possible comparison between any iPhone and any Android until and unless you
first always agree to completely ignore the iPhone is crippled at birth.
--
People love the iPhone so much that their best argument is that it does
nothing - and that - in and of itself - is what they say it does best.
Frank Slootweg
8 nov 2023, 11:49:0408/11/23
a
Carlos E. R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]
admins have to fight to get some control over employee's phones and they
and the employees have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get it
somewhat workable.
Some time ago, there was an experienced admin in the Dutch (nl.*)
groups and he could not believe all the brick walls he kept running
into. When he encountered yet another problem, the only thing we could
do is nod and confirm that it indeed was as bad as it was.
[...]
> No, Arlen, no.
>
> This is needed feature for an enterprise phone, and you saying that it
> is crippled is ridiculous. Instead, you have to find some Android
> supplier that allows doing the exact same thing.
>
> This is an undeniable bonus point for iphones.
>
> Windows, for instance, also offer similar features.
>
> The only thing you can do to counteract the argument is find how to do
> the same thing on Android. What company can I buy from, a box of Android
> phones with a centralized computer to rule them all, in a manner that no
> user can do any customization or change if not expliticly allowed by the
> central controller.
>
> Otherwise, be a gentleman and concede the point.
Indeed, AFAIK there's no such management platform for Android and
>
> This is needed feature for an enterprise phone, and you saying that it
> is crippled is ridiculous. Instead, you have to find some Android
> supplier that allows doing the exact same thing.
>
> This is an undeniable bonus point for iphones.
>
> Windows, for instance, also offer similar features.
>
> The only thing you can do to counteract the argument is find how to do
> the same thing on Android. What company can I buy from, a box of Android
> phones with a centralized computer to rule them all, in a manner that no
> user can do any customization or change if not expliticly allowed by the
> central controller.
>
> Otherwise, be a gentleman and concede the point.
admins have to fight to get some control over employee's phones and they
and the employees have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get it
somewhat workable.
Some time ago, there was an experienced admin in the Dutch (nl.*)
groups and he could not believe all the brick walls he kept running
into. When he encountered yet another problem, the only thing we could
do is nod and confirm that it indeed was as bad as it was.
Carlos E. R.
8 nov 2023, 13:57:4708/11/23
a
On 2023-11-08 16:39, Wally J wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>
>>> Exactly my point. What's different about iOS is that it is born crippled.
>>>
>>
>> This is needed feature for an enterprise phone, and you saying that it
>> is crippled is ridiculous.
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> My point of view is a very adult point of view - based on the facts.
> Not on marketing bullshit.
WOOSH!
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>
>>> Exactly my point. What's different about iOS is that it is born crippled.
>>>
>>
>> This is needed feature for an enterprise phone, and you saying that it
>> is crippled is ridiculous.
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> My point of view is a very adult point of view - based on the facts.
> Not on marketing bullshit.
You are being the kid this time. Just be a gentleman and concede the point.
... (ignoring the rest of the bla bla blah)
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
Arno Welzel
8 nov 2023, 14:49:4708/11/23
a
Wally J, 2023-11-08 15:49:
companies which use iPhones don't care.
>> Apple offers a centralized management for all comapny devices *without*
>> *any* interaction needed on the device itself.
>> No "work" profile and more important: no "private" profile where employess
>> can do whatever they want.
>
> Exactly my point.
> There is no comparative iPhone to Android because iOS is born crippled.
No - that is what company *want*! And even if you don't like that - the
>> *any* interaction needed on the device itself.
>> No "work" profile and more important: no "private" profile where employess
>> can do whatever they want.
>
> Exactly my point.
> There is no comparative iPhone to Android because iOS is born crippled.
companies which use iPhones don't care.
Arno Welzel
8 nov 2023, 14:54:1408/11/23
a
Wally J, 2023-11-08 16:05:
[...]
> I hope you and Arno do.
No.
> Because I care about sensible people understanding logical thought
> processes.
This has nothing to do with "logical thought", it's just a personal
flamewar against iPhones.
JFTR: I only use Android as my private device and would never buy an
iPhone myself for certain reasons. But your crusade against iPhones is
something I can not take serious.
[...]
> As always, the iPhone is so severely crippled, even in the camera
> functionality, that you have to ignore that it's crippled to even begin to
> compare the two devices in output.
>
> And that's my point.
> Most people don't understand a word I said above.
Yes, because it is completely gibberish and no facts.
> functionality, that you have to ignore that it's crippled to even begin to
> compare the two devices in output.
>
> And that's my point.
> Most people don't understand a word I said above.
> I hope you and Arno do.
> Because I care about sensible people understanding logical thought
> processes.
flamewar against iPhones.
JFTR: I only use Android as my private device and would never buy an
iPhone myself for certain reasons. But your crusade against iPhones is
something I can not take serious.
Arno Welzel
8 nov 2023, 14:55:4308/11/23
a
Wolf Greenblatt, 2023-11-08 02:28:
Which corporations do so? Can you name some?
Wally J
9 nov 2023, 01:27:1409/11/23
a
"Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
> Just be a gentleman and concede the point.
I did concede as a perfect gentleman, Carlos.
Perhaps you missed it?
I proved the iPhone is crippled and if _that_ is what corporations like
most about the iPhone, then being crippled in functionality is certainly a
"feature" that is in the iPhone nature, but which isn't part of Android.
Not being able to do anything is a strange feature to be bragging about,
but in the corporate world, it's something _they_ (i.e., IT) perhaps love.
Still, Steve is fond of saying that the crippling nature of the iPhone in
terms of what _his company wants_ is a drawback in the GPS space, so it
works both ways.
However, to the point of this thread, that the iPhone is crippled by all
accounts, is indeed why there is no comparison to Android until and unless
you completely ignore that the iPhone can't do what Android can do.
Which you claim is a bonus - and which I would agree just as I would agree
the Germans found it a bonus how well Zyklon B worked on humans in WWII.
--
We finally found something the iPhone could do better than Android does.
And that something... is nothing.
Wally J
9 nov 2023, 01:35:0109/11/23
a
Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
> This has nothing to do with "logical thought", it's just a personal
> flamewar against iPhones.
It's interesting that you think every truth about Apple products to be a
"flame war" - such as the fact that iPhones lack common sd card slots.
Why Arno?
I would like to better understand your thought processes, Arno.
Why is something so obviously crippling, such as the lack of an sdslot in
iPhones, a point of view that you consider "illogical" and a "flame war"?
> JFTR: I only use Android as my private device and would never buy an
> iPhone myself for certain reasons. But your crusade against iPhones is
> something I can not take serious.
I consider it illuminating that you consider any discussion about an iPhone
that contains the truth (such as the lack of an sdslot) to be a "crusade
against iPhones".
What's the logic of your thought processes, Arno?
Why do you consider it unfathomable that someone would state facts about
Apple products, such as the fact Apple inserts a tracking ID into the IPA?
I don't consider you an iKook, Arno.
Yet that's exactly what makes an iKook, an iKook.
They hate every fact about Apple products, Arno.
But what about you?
What's your logic?
Do you too hate every fact about Apple products?
If not...
Why do you consider simply stating any fact to be a crusade against Apple?
--
The whole point of Usenet is to find people who know more than you do.
And to contribute to the overall tribal knowledge value of the newsgroup.
It's a domino effect where each of us helps the next person in the lineup.
> This has nothing to do with "logical thought", it's just a personal
> flamewar against iPhones.
"flame war" - such as the fact that iPhones lack common sd card slots.
Why Arno?
I would like to better understand your thought processes, Arno.
Why is something so obviously crippling, such as the lack of an sdslot in
iPhones, a point of view that you consider "illogical" and a "flame war"?
> JFTR: I only use Android as my private device and would never buy an
> iPhone myself for certain reasons. But your crusade against iPhones is
> something I can not take serious.
that contains the truth (such as the lack of an sdslot) to be a "crusade
against iPhones".
What's the logic of your thought processes, Arno?
Why do you consider it unfathomable that someone would state facts about
Apple products, such as the fact Apple inserts a tracking ID into the IPA?
I don't consider you an iKook, Arno.
Yet that's exactly what makes an iKook, an iKook.
They hate every fact about Apple products, Arno.
But what about you?
What's your logic?
Do you too hate every fact about Apple products?
If not...
Why do you consider simply stating any fact to be a crusade against Apple?
--
The whole point of Usenet is to find people who know more than you do.
And to contribute to the overall tribal knowledge value of the newsgroup.
It's a domino effect where each of us helps the next person in the lineup.
Andrew
9 nov 2023, 01:45:1209/11/23
a
Frank Slootweg wrote on 8 Nov 2023 16:49:02 GMT :
>> This is needed feature for an enterprise phone, and you saying that it
>> is crippled is ridiculous. Instead, you have to find some Android
>> supplier that allows doing the exact same thing.
>>
>> This is an undeniable bonus point for iphones.
>>
>> Windows, for instance, also offer similar features.
>>
>> The only thing you can do to counteract the argument is find how to do
>> the same thing on Android. What company can I buy from, a box of Android
>> phones with a centralized computer to rule them all, in a manner that no
>> user can do any customization or change if not expliticly allowed by the
>> central controller.
>>
>> Otherwise, be a gentleman and concede the point.
>
> Indeed, AFAIK there's no such management platform for Android and
> admins have to fight to get some control over employee's phones and they
> and the employees have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get it
> somewhat workable.
>
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/mem/intune/configuration/media/device-restrictions-android-for-work/setting-headers.png
>> This is needed feature for an enterprise phone, and you saying that it
>> is crippled is ridiculous. Instead, you have to find some Android
>> supplier that allows doing the exact same thing.
>>
>> This is an undeniable bonus point for iphones.
>>
>> Windows, for instance, also offer similar features.
>>
>> The only thing you can do to counteract the argument is find how to do
>> the same thing on Android. What company can I buy from, a box of Android
>> phones with a centralized computer to rule them all, in a manner that no
>> user can do any customization or change if not expliticly allowed by the
>> central controller.
>>
>> Otherwise, be a gentleman and concede the point.
>
> Indeed, AFAIK there's no such management platform for Android and
> admins have to fight to get some control over employee's phones and they
> and the employees have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get it
> somewhat workable.
>
>
> Some time ago, there was an experienced admin in the Dutch (nl.*)
> groups and he could not believe all the brick walls he kept running
> into. When he encountered yet another problem, the only thing we could
> do is nod and confirm that it indeed was as bad as it was.
>
Carlos E. R.
9 nov 2023, 05:58:0009/11/23
a
Do you know if they work with all Android brands, or they need specific
one(s)?
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
Carlos E. R.
9 nov 2023, 05:59:1009/11/23
a
On 2023-11-09 07:27, Wally J wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>
>> Just be a gentleman and concede the point.
>
> I did concede as a perfect gentleman, Carlos.
> Perhaps you missed it?
>
> I proved the iPhone is crippled
No, it is not. Wrong wording.
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>
>> Just be a gentleman and concede the point.
>
> I did concede as a perfect gentleman, Carlos.
> Perhaps you missed it?
>
> I proved the iPhone is crippled
> and if _that_ is what corporations like
> most about the iPhone, then being crippled in functionality is certainly a
> "feature" that is in the iPhone nature, but which isn't part of Android.
>
> Not being able to do anything is a strange feature to be bragging about,
> but in the corporate world, it's something _they_ (i.e., IT) perhaps love.
It is a needed feature that allows them to sell to the corporate world.
It is a plainly good and wanted feature. An enhancement, because clients
also have to buy the expensive management tools (same as you need
Windows Server plus expensive tools to do a similar job with Windows;
Windows Server and Windows Professional are not crippled, they actually
have more features than the Home version).
Don't beat around the bush.
Iphones are clearly better in this area. No mincing of words.
(and remember I have never owned an iphone).
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
Carlos E. R.
9 nov 2023, 06:15:4609/11/23
a
On 2023-11-09 07:34, Wally J wrote:
> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>> This has nothing to do with "logical thought", it's just a personal
>> flamewar against iPhones.
>
> It's interesting that you think every truth about Apple products to be a
> "flame war" - such as the fact that iPhones lack common sd card slots.
>
We normal people simply don't care. We are not constantly looking and
> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>> This has nothing to do with "logical thought", it's just a personal
>> flamewar against iPhones.
>
> It's interesting that you think every truth about Apple products to be a
> "flame war" - such as the fact that iPhones lack common sd card slots.
>
posting what one or another brand did badly, and constantly showing one
or another brand in a bad light. And it is always the same brand which
does badly.
You do.
This is not our war.
We will like some things done by one brand, and other times like things
done by another brand, and then we choose one or the other brand. We can
even choose the other brand depending on what we are doing.
(and please remember that my choice is Android, and have never owned an
Apple device, o don't try to mark me as a fanboy)
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
badgolferman
9 nov 2023, 06:49:1709/11/23
a
Wally J wrote:
>As always, I can learn from others and I am never afraid to admit
>when I don't know something. I have no idea what MDM is at the moment.
>
>> MDM gives the IT Department the ability to remotely manage your
>>phone without any user interaction. If necessary they can wipe
>>your phone clean if you report it lost. MDM provides special
>>certificates and automatic VPN profiles which makes a phone become
>>part of the approved network to the point where you can open
>>encrypted emails and access confidential servers. There are many
>>more things MDM can do which I can't speak of intelligently.
>
>While I can see how that's useful, I think Android profiles do the
>same thing but I must admit I haven't been in the corporate world
>since I retired so I'd have to look up how they do it.
>
>However...
>
>Android is so much more powerful than the crippled iOS that I can't
>imagine it not being possible - as we have to keep in mind what iOS
>is and isn't.
>
>Apple restricts what iOS can do.
>Google can't restrict what Android can do.
Maybe it's precisely because of the built in restrictions that Mobile
>As always, I can learn from others and I am never afraid to admit
>when I don't know something. I have no idea what MDM is at the moment.
>
>> MDM gives the IT Department the ability to remotely manage your
>>phone without any user interaction. If necessary they can wipe
>>your phone clean if you report it lost. MDM provides special
>>certificates and automatic VPN profiles which makes a phone become
>>part of the approved network to the point where you can open
>>encrypted emails and access confidential servers. There are many
>>more things MDM can do which I can't speak of intelligently.
>
>While I can see how that's useful, I think Android profiles do the
>same thing but I must admit I haven't been in the corporate world
>since I retired so I'd have to look up how they do it.
>
>However...
>
>Android is so much more powerful than the crippled iOS that I can't
>imagine it not being possible - as we have to keep in mind what iOS
>is and isn't.
>
>Apple restricts what iOS can do.
>Google can't restrict what Android can do.
Devicement Management works as desired on iPhones and not Androids.
The one my company uses is called MaaS360.
As I said before, I'm not fully understanding of all the capabilities
of MDM on either platform. For all I know, it's possible the Android
devices can be managed like the iOS devices by this time.
Wally J
9 nov 2023, 17:22:4209/11/23
a
"Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>> I proved the iPhone is crippled
>
> No, it is not. Wrong wording.
Hi Carlos,
>
> No, it is not. Wrong wording.
It's just a word to describe completely missing "things" (both software and
hardware) where if a person is missing both legs (like an iPhone is missing
both ports and slots) then one of those words is "crippled".
What word do you want me to use for an iPhone when it's completely missing
hundreds upon hundreds (upon hundreds) of useful "things" that Android has?
Paraplegic is a politically correct word, so maybe you want me to use that?
You pick the word that conveys the meaning and let me know what word it is.
>> Not being able to do anything is a strange feature to be bragging about,
>> but in the corporate world, it's something _they_ (i.e., IT) perhaps love.
>
> It is not a strange feature at all.
to keep in mind the topic that is the subject of this thread.
Hence, I'm completely aware that the iPhone can't do much of anything so
corporations like that iOS can't do much. That's obvious to everyone.
If you want to restrict what a phone can do, hell... start with the iPhone
because it already can't do much - which is the point of this thread.
I already conceded gracefully that you're correct that corporations may
like the iPhone because it's already (pick your word for "not functional").
Don't think I don't understand that as I use iOS devices every single day.
I know they can't do much.
But I also know both platforms are in the work environment, Carlos.
> It is a needed feature that allows them to sell to the corporate world.
> It is a plainly good and wanted feature. An enhancement, because clients
> also have to buy the expensive management tools (same as you need
> Windows Server plus expensive tools to do a similar job with Windows;
> Windows Server and Windows Professional are not crippled, they actually
> have more features than the Home version).
>
> Don't beat around the bush.
>
> Iphones are clearly better in this area. No mincing of words.
>
> (and remember I have never owned an iphone).
I didn't turn this thread into a corporate-only thread, so since you did, I
have to ask you this question of fact please.
Are Android phones and iPhones both common in corporate environments or
not, Carlos?
There are Android phones in the workplace, and there are iPhones in the
workplace so your argument that _only_ iPhones can be in the workplace is
defeated by the obvious facts, is it not?
How do corporations manage to have Android phones if your argument is that
they can't, Carlos?
Remember, I am never going to say or think an illogical thought.
It's you who claims that Android can't be in the work environment.
Not me.
Why do you think Android can't be in the work environment?
Or do you agree with my point of view which based on facts.
FACT: *BOTH platforms are common in the work environment*
Are you seriously disputing that fact, Carlos?
Please tell me you are aware both platforms are common in the work place.
--
The problem with people who make crazy conclusions is they have to ignore
all the salient facts in order to make those crazy conclusions.
Wally J
9 nov 2023, 17:40:4809/11/23
a
Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
> No - that is what company *want*! And even if you don't like that - the
> companies which use iPhones don't care.
Hi Arno,
The topic of this thread is that there is no comparison iPhone because the
iPhone can't do thousands (upon thousands!) of things that Android can.
Which is precisely the reason you say corporations "want" iPhones, Arno.
Because they like that the iPhone is already crippled from the start.
Rest assured I "understand" fully why you think that.
Because you are correct that the iPhone is crippled in what it can do.
But you're incorrect that companies don't allow Android phones at work.
Therein lies your problem.
Facts are not on your side.
The fact is what you think simply defies all evidence out there.
The fact is plenty of companies use both the iPhone and Android phones.
Right?
Hence... your "corporate" aside above is patently preposterous, Arno.
I will never say an illogical nor non-sensical statement since I base all
my assessments on facts and not on the bullshit that marketing claims.
The fact is that both Android and Apple phones are common in the work
place, so for you to claim otherwise is patently absurd (even crazy).
I'm sure "some" companies want to standardize on one brand because it makes
their life easier - just as some companies standardize on Thinkpads, Arno.
*But your argument is preposterous that companies only want Apple phones.*
--
Did you base your entire absurdly crazy assessment on only Apple brochures?
> No - that is what company *want*! And even if you don't like that - the
> companies which use iPhones don't care.
The topic of this thread is that there is no comparison iPhone because the
iPhone can't do thousands (upon thousands!) of things that Android can.
Which is precisely the reason you say corporations "want" iPhones, Arno.
Because they like that the iPhone is already crippled from the start.
Rest assured I "understand" fully why you think that.
Because you are correct that the iPhone is crippled in what it can do.
But you're incorrect that companies don't allow Android phones at work.
Therein lies your problem.
Facts are not on your side.
The fact is what you think simply defies all evidence out there.
The fact is plenty of companies use both the iPhone and Android phones.
Right?
Hence... your "corporate" aside above is patently preposterous, Arno.
I will never say an illogical nor non-sensical statement since I base all
my assessments on facts and not on the bullshit that marketing claims.
The fact is that both Android and Apple phones are common in the work
place, so for you to claim otherwise is patently absurd (even crazy).
I'm sure "some" companies want to standardize on one brand because it makes
their life easier - just as some companies standardize on Thinkpads, Arno.
*But your argument is preposterous that companies only want Apple phones.*
--
Did you base your entire absurdly crazy assessment on only Apple brochures?
Wally J
9 nov 2023, 18:06:2009/11/23
a
"Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
> We normal people simply don't care.
Carlos,
Whether or not you care is not the point since Arno said the same thing.
A fact is a fact whether or not you care about that fact, Carlos.
For example, you may not care that people are born crippled like the iPhone
is born crippled) but it's still a fact that people are born crippled.
For both you and Arno to claim that facts about Apple iPhones can't
possibly exist simply because you don't care about facts, is patently
absurd, Carlos.
> We are not constantly looking and
> posting what one or another brand did badly, and constantly showing one
> or another brand in a bad light. And it is always the same brand which
> does badly.
casts Apple in a bad light.
How can you think that way, Carlos?
It's absurd.
FACTS:
a. The fact is no iPhone has an sdslot. Period.
b. The fact is every IPA you download has a tracking ID inserted. Period.
c. The fact is new iPhones are born without the common aux jack. Period.
Those are just facts, Carlos.
Right?
Why do you feel every truth about Apple products cast them in a bad light?
They're just facts about Apple products.
> We will like some things done by one brand, and other times like things
> done by another brand, and then we choose one or the other brand. We can
> even choose the other brand depending on what we are doing.
a. I know what Android can do
b. And I know what the iPhone can't do
And vice versa.
For example, I've said many times I use Google Voice on the iPad _because_
it doesn't create a Google Account on the iPad - which you seem to ignore.
You can't ignore that I simply state the facts about the two products.
a. When you use GV on Android - it _creates_ a Google Account on the device
b. That doesn't happen when you use GV on the iPad
Those are just facts, Carlos.
You seem to be saying you hate the facts when they apply to Apple.
Why?
Why do you feel any fact about Apple products is casting it in a bad light?
> (and please remember that my choice is Android, and have never owned an
> Apple device, o don't try to mark me as a fanboy)
Both of you seem to think that facts can't exist if you don't care about
them. Worse, you both think that any bad fact must be wrong simply because
it's a bad fact. Doubly so.
a. Facts can't exist if you don't care.
b. Bad facts can't exist even more because they are bad & you don't care.
And that's fine for you to think that way.
But it's a patently absurd thought process.
--
People who form absurd assessments based on ignoring facts, are a problem
because all their assessments are absurd since they think in absurd ways.
Alan
9 nov 2023, 20:38:2309/11/23
a
On 2023-11-04 18:25, Wally J wrote:
> You can chastise me if I ever say something unreasonable or illogical.
>
> This is a reasonable logical and sensible assessment based on facts:
> *There is no comparison between what an iPhone & Android phone does*
>
> My Samsung Galaxy A32-5G was free from T-Mobile (as you're well aware),
> so all I paid was the 10% sales tax on the MSPR and it came with a charger.
>
> That free phone is far more powerful than any iPhone ever sold, in terms of
> what it can do (which I hope people understand by now), so it's already
> better than any iPhone ever sold - and it was essentially free + tax.
>
> Alan Browne claims he can find a "comparable" iPhone but he can't.
> He lied.
>
> As just one example, my free phone does GPS spoofing.
> Can any iPhone do that?
>
> My free phone can graphically debug Wi-Fi APs. Can any iPhone do that?
What percentage of consumers care?
> My free phone can run the Tor browser. Can any iPhone do that?
What percentage of consumers care?
> My free phone can run a system firewall. Can any iPhone do that?
Yes.
> My free phone can swap out the launcher. Can any iPhone do that?
What percentage of consumers care?
> My free phone can change the default text messenger.
What percentage of consumers care?
> My free phone can do automatic call recording.
What percentage of consumers care?
> My free phone can torrent.
What percentage of consumers care about being able to steal content?
> My free phone can ...
>
> The point is that Alan Browne pretends that his iPhone can do that.
> But it can't.
>
> A very expensive toy.
> But a toy nonetheless.
>
> There is no comparison between what an iPhone & Android phone does.
> You can chastise me if I ever say something unreasonable or illogical.
>
> This is a reasonable logical and sensible assessment based on facts:
> *There is no comparison between what an iPhone & Android phone does*
>
> My Samsung Galaxy A32-5G was free from T-Mobile (as you're well aware),
> so all I paid was the 10% sales tax on the MSPR and it came with a charger.
>
> That free phone is far more powerful than any iPhone ever sold, in terms of
> what it can do (which I hope people understand by now), so it's already
> better than any iPhone ever sold - and it was essentially free + tax.
>
> Alan Browne claims he can find a "comparable" iPhone but he can't.
> He lied.
>
> As just one example, my free phone does GPS spoofing.
> Can any iPhone do that?
>
> My free phone can graphically debug Wi-Fi APs. Can any iPhone do that?
What percentage of consumers care?
> My free phone can run the Tor browser. Can any iPhone do that?
What percentage of consumers care?
> My free phone can run a system firewall. Can any iPhone do that?
Yes.
> My free phone can swap out the launcher. Can any iPhone do that?
What percentage of consumers care?
> My free phone can change the default text messenger.
What percentage of consumers care?
> My free phone can do automatic call recording.
What percentage of consumers care?
> My free phone can torrent.
What percentage of consumers care about being able to steal content?
> My free phone can ...
>
> The point is that Alan Browne pretends that his iPhone can do that.
> But it can't.
>
> There is no "comparable" iPhone to even my free Android phone.
> What Alan Browne is doing is ignoring that an iPhone is just a toy.
> There is no "comparable" iPhone to even my free Android phone.
>
> A very expensive toy.
> But a toy nonetheless.
>
> There is no comparison between what an iPhone & Android phone does.
Andrew
9 nov 2023, 21:19:5009/11/23
a
The government contracts specify only Android so that restricts us from
using anything else for work (they don't care about personal phones).
To try to answer your question, the company hands out the preconfigured
work phones to us and lately they have been S23's but I don't know if the
Android enterprise solutions work with any other brand (it probably does).
But this says Android's Enterprise API works on more than 80 devices.
https://developers.google.com/android/management/
And this says they are "fully managed" solutions for enterprise work.
https://developers.google.com/android/work/requirements/fully-managed-device
A simple google shows there are many Android MDM solutions.
https://www.android.com/enterprise/management/
I think Google calls the basic underlying API something like "Enterprise."
https://support.google.com/work/android/answer/6396012
https://support.google.com/work/android/answer/9562029
And many companies are making Android "Enterprise" management solutions.
https://www.android.com/enterprise/resources/
https://www.android.com/intl/en_ie/enterprise/management/
There is even something called Google Endpoint but I think it involves
Google working together with the corporation to make a management console.
https://support.google.com/a/answer/12010750
HTH
Andrew
9 nov 2023, 21:21:1909/11/23
a
badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote
> Maybe it's precisely because of the built in restrictions that Mobile
> Devicement Management works as desired on iPhones and not Androids.
> The one my company uses is called MaaS360.
>
> As I said before, I'm not fully understanding of all the capabilities
> of MDM on either platform. For all I know, it's possible the Android
> devices can be managed like the iOS devices by this time.
MDM works on everything you want it to work on, Android & Apple included.
https://www.manageengine.com/mobile-device-management/
There are many solutions out there that work on both Apple and Android.
https://www.cdw.com/content/cdw/en/solutions/digital-workspace/mobile-device-management.html
This is just one of them.
https://webobjects2.cdw.com/is/content/CDW/cdw/on-domain-cdw/solutions/mobile-device-management-flyer.pdf
> Maybe it's precisely because of the built in restrictions that Mobile
> Devicement Management works as desired on iPhones and not Androids.
> The one my company uses is called MaaS360.
>
> As I said before, I'm not fully understanding of all the capabilities
> of MDM on either platform. For all I know, it's possible the Android
> devices can be managed like the iOS devices by this time.
https://www.manageengine.com/mobile-device-management/
There are many solutions out there that work on both Apple and Android.
https://www.cdw.com/content/cdw/en/solutions/digital-workspace/mobile-device-management.html
This is just one of them.
https://webobjects2.cdw.com/is/content/CDW/cdw/on-domain-cdw/solutions/mobile-device-management-flyer.pdf
Charlie
9 nov 2023, 21:26:3909/11/23
a
On this Thu, 9 Nov 2023 17:38:20 -0800, Alan wrote:
> What percentage of consumers care?
I think his observation is that consumers on every other operating system
> What percentage of consumers care?
do it except the iPhone users so the obvious question is why are only the
Apple users willing to put up with a device that can't do anything they do.
Carlos E. R.
10 nov 2023, 09:14:1110/11/23
a
So Android can do the same "crippling" as iphones ;-)
That's good. It was strange that Google would give up on the
enterprise/corporate market that easily.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
Frank Slootweg
10 nov 2023, 10:24:0210/11/23
a
Carlos E. R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-11-10 03:19, Andrew wrote:
> > Carlos E. R. wrote on Thu, 9 Nov 2023 11:57:57 +0100 :
[...]
> > Carlos E. R. wrote on Thu, 9 Nov 2023 11:57:57 +0100 :
helpful and very informational.
Wally J
11 nov 2023, 04:34:2711/11/23
a
"Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>> There was a Lightning FM radio for iPhones but it is no longer available
>> <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G1LGS62>.
>
> I have been listening to the radio in this room for the last two months,
> using Open Radio app on a tablet (ie, via internet) and a BT speaker.
Bear in mind it's only iPhones which completely lack modern functionality
(such as portable memory slots and the industry standard 3.5mm aux jack).
FACT:
Most Android phones have them; yet no new iPhones do.
*0% of iPhones have key modern hardware capabilities - while from 66%*
*to 78% of Android phone have that key modern hardware functionality*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/vLB-bIF-P5Q/>
Certainly mine does.
The lack of modern hardware is yet another reason why you can't seriously
compare any iPhone to even the least expensive Android phone out there.
*There is no comparison possible between what an iPhone & Android phone does*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/eziBe9NRI04>
--
Apple makes those ungodly profits off of an incredibly gullible consumer.
Frank Slootweg
11 nov 2023, 10:44:1111/11/23
a
'Arlen',
FYI, your article has the wrong 'References:'. The last message-id is
of one of my articles - i.e. not one of Carlos - and one on a totally
different topic (Android Enterprise management, not FM radio, etc.).
So maybe there's something wrong with your script(s). Or was it
finger-trouble.
FYI, your article has the wrong 'References:'. The last message-id is
of one of my articles - i.e. not one of Carlos - and one on a totally
different topic (Android Enterprise management, not FM radio, etc.).
So maybe there's something wrong with your script(s). Or was it
finger-trouble.
Arno Welzel
11 nov 2023, 15:48:1411/11/23
a
Wally J, 2023-11-09 23:40:
> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>> No - that is what company *want*! And even if you don't like that - the
>> companies which use iPhones don't care.
>
> Hi Arno,
>
> The topic of this thread is that there is no comparison iPhone because the
> iPhone can't do thousands (upon thousands!) of things that Android can.
Aha "thousands" - interesting. I wonder if you can name even more then
500 individual "thinkgs".
If you like to, I can provide a editable Nextcloud spreadsheet document
as link so you can add it there.
JFTR: I don't like iPhones either. But telling people that a device can
do "thousands" of things better than another is just complete bullshit.
> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>> No - that is what company *want*! And even if you don't like that - the
>> companies which use iPhones don't care.
>
> Hi Arno,
>
> The topic of this thread is that there is no comparison iPhone because the
> iPhone can't do thousands (upon thousands!) of things that Android can.
500 individual "thinkgs".
If you like to, I can provide a editable Nextcloud spreadsheet document
as link so you can add it there.
JFTR: I don't like iPhones either. But telling people that a device can
do "thousands" of things better than another is just complete bullshit.
Arno Welzel
11 nov 2023, 15:56:2811/11/23
a
Wally J, 2023-11-09 07:34:
[...]
not. I don't "hate" the things I don't use - I just don't use them.
Maybe because they don't provide what I need or because I don't like the
business practices of the vendor. But this is just my personal decision
which has nothing to do with an emotional "hate".
> Why do you consider simply stating any fact to be a crusade against Apple?
Because much of the things you talk are not facts but just your personal
opinion and it looks like you really hate Apple and everyone who uses
Apple devices.
For example calling people "iKook" is also nothing else than a sign of
your personal crusade against Apple. You can not really believe that
trying to insult users of certain devices this way is "fact telling".
I don't know why you think this will get you anywhere in life. But you
should really think of spending your time with more useful things. And
even if users behave stupid you'd better just ignore them.
And this is what I gonna do now with you - ignore you. I have better
things to do.
[...]
> I don't consider you an iKook, Arno.
> Yet that's exactly what makes an iKook, an iKook.
> They hate every fact about Apple products, Arno.
>
> But what about you?
> What's your logic?
>
> Do you too hate every fact about Apple products?
No. I don't hate produects. I just decide what I like to use and what
> Yet that's exactly what makes an iKook, an iKook.
> They hate every fact about Apple products, Arno.
>
> But what about you?
> What's your logic?
>
> Do you too hate every fact about Apple products?
not. I don't "hate" the things I don't use - I just don't use them.
Maybe because they don't provide what I need or because I don't like the
business practices of the vendor. But this is just my personal decision
which has nothing to do with an emotional "hate".
> Why do you consider simply stating any fact to be a crusade against Apple?
opinion and it looks like you really hate Apple and everyone who uses
Apple devices.
For example calling people "iKook" is also nothing else than a sign of
your personal crusade against Apple. You can not really believe that
trying to insult users of certain devices this way is "fact telling".
I don't know why you think this will get you anywhere in life. But you
should really think of spending your time with more useful things. And
even if users behave stupid you'd better just ignore them.
And this is what I gonna do now with you - ignore you. I have better
things to do.
Carlos E. R.
11 nov 2023, 17:47:1711/11/23
a
On 2023-11-11 21:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Wally J, 2023-11-09 23:40:
>
>> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>>
>>> No - that is what company *want*! And even if you don't like that - the
>>> companies which use iPhones don't care.
>>
>> Hi Arno,
>>
>> The topic of this thread is that there is no comparison iPhone because the
>> iPhone can't do thousands (upon thousands!) of things that Android can.
>
> Aha "thousands" - interesting. I wonder if you can name even more then
> 500 individual "thinkgs".
>
> If you like to, I can provide a editable Nextcloud spreadsheet document
> as link so you can add it there.
He won't. Breach of privacy :-D
> Wally J, 2023-11-09 23:40:
>
>> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>>
>>> No - that is what company *want*! And even if you don't like that - the
>>> companies which use iPhones don't care.
>>
>> Hi Arno,
>>
>> The topic of this thread is that there is no comparison iPhone because the
>> iPhone can't do thousands (upon thousands!) of things that Android can.
>
> Aha "thousands" - interesting. I wonder if you can name even more then
> 500 individual "thinkgs".
>
> If you like to, I can provide a editable Nextcloud spreadsheet document
> as link so you can add it there.
Same actual reason he doesn't write his tutorials in a proper web page,
properly indexed and searchable, and instead claims that they are in
Usenet for the future :-D
Pity, because that would be useful.
>
> JFTR: I don't like iPhones either. But telling people that a device can
> do "thousands" of things better than another is just complete bullshit.
>
--
Carlos E.R.
Wally J
11 nov 2023, 23:45:4711/11/23
a
Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
> JFTR: I don't like iPhones either. But telling people that a device can
> do "thousands" of things better than another is just complete bullshit.
Hi Arno,
Your statement, just for the record, is kind of like saying that you have
to prove you have a thousand dollars in the bank by counting every single
dollar and listing the serial number on this thread or you won't believe
it.
There are little things. And they amount to big things.
Dollar bills amount to five dollar bills. And ten dollar bills.
And twenties, Arno.
The big thing are the twenties and the Ben Franklins, Arno.
Must I list the serial number for every dollar bill under a Benjy?
You are welcome to chastise me if I'm ever not logical or sensible.
Or if I make assessments which are not based on bona fide facts.
Hence, you bring up a good point in that I am not prepared to set down and
list the thousands of useful app functionalities on Android not on iOS.
But bear in mind there are "big things" & "little things" which add up.
As just one example, there are easily fifty things (maybe a hundred?) alone
that the Nova launcher does for Android that no iPhone can ever do, right?
Things like organize the screen in any grid, in any pattern, with any size
icon, with any shading with any spacing with any overlap, etc. Add things
like you can name any app anything you want (even system apps) and you can
change their icons (yes, even system apps) and you can have the app icon
launchers any number of times in any folder, etc., and that you can _save_
that carefully crafted setup to a text file automatically & reload it to
use on any phone, and you have the exact setup on the next phone, etc.
That's easily another fifty to a hundred things Android does the iPhone
can't, right?
Then take the sd slot, and tell me how many things can you do with an sd
slot that you can't do if you don't have it, and then add the fact that USB
works perfectly connecting Android and Windows and that's another hundred
things you can do.
Get my point?
It's easily thousands of "little things" out of scores of "big things".
As another simple example, try to load any of those thousands of apps on
any Android device and it will work but you can't do that with iOS.
The list of things iOS can't do that Android does goes on forever, Arno.
How many?
A lot.
More than I can count, that's for sure.
Now here's a challenge for you, Arno.
Find one useful app functionality on iOS that isn't already on Android.
Name just one.
> JFTR: I don't like iPhones either. But telling people that a device can
> do "thousands" of things better than another is just complete bullshit.
Your statement, just for the record, is kind of like saying that you have
to prove you have a thousand dollars in the bank by counting every single
dollar and listing the serial number on this thread or you won't believe
it.
There are little things. And they amount to big things.
Dollar bills amount to five dollar bills. And ten dollar bills.
And twenties, Arno.
The big thing are the twenties and the Ben Franklins, Arno.
Must I list the serial number for every dollar bill under a Benjy?
You are welcome to chastise me if I'm ever not logical or sensible.
Or if I make assessments which are not based on bona fide facts.
Hence, you bring up a good point in that I am not prepared to set down and
list the thousands of useful app functionalities on Android not on iOS.
But bear in mind there are "big things" & "little things" which add up.
As just one example, there are easily fifty things (maybe a hundred?) alone
that the Nova launcher does for Android that no iPhone can ever do, right?
Things like organize the screen in any grid, in any pattern, with any size
icon, with any shading with any spacing with any overlap, etc. Add things
like you can name any app anything you want (even system apps) and you can
change their icons (yes, even system apps) and you can have the app icon
launchers any number of times in any folder, etc., and that you can _save_
that carefully crafted setup to a text file automatically & reload it to
use on any phone, and you have the exact setup on the next phone, etc.
That's easily another fifty to a hundred things Android does the iPhone
can't, right?
Then take the sd slot, and tell me how many things can you do with an sd
slot that you can't do if you don't have it, and then add the fact that USB
works perfectly connecting Android and Windows and that's another hundred
things you can do.
Get my point?
It's easily thousands of "little things" out of scores of "big things".
As another simple example, try to load any of those thousands of apps on
any Android device and it will work but you can't do that with iOS.
The list of things iOS can't do that Android does goes on forever, Arno.
How many?
A lot.
More than I can count, that's for sure.
Now here's a challenge for you, Arno.
Find one useful app functionality on iOS that isn't already on Android.
Name just one.
Wally J
11 nov 2023, 23:46:5911/11/23
a
"Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
> Same actual reason he doesn't write his tutorials in a proper web page,
> properly indexed and searchable, and instead claims that they are in
> Usenet for the future :-D
>
> Pity, because that would be useful.
Look here...
> properly indexed and searchable, and instead claims that they are in
> Usenet for the future :-D
>
> Pity, because that would be useful.
<https://xdaforums.com/m/galaxya325g.11604613/recent-content>
Frankie
11 nov 2023, 23:59:1411/11/23
a
On 11/11/2023, Arno Welzel wrote:
> telling people that a device can
> do "thousands" of things better than another is just complete bullshit.
No. It's you who is wrong.
> telling people that a device can
> do "thousands" of things better than another is just complete bullshit.
There are so many major and minor differences that it's definitely in the
thousands but don't get it from me. Get it from this google doc to start.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE/
Arno Welzel
12 nov 2023, 04:32:3612/11/23
a
Frankie, 2023-11-12 05:59:
Oh my.
This document is full of outdated stuff.
For example:
"55 iOS Features that Many Android Users Want that Only iPhone Users Get
(...)
Microphone and camera indicator"
This is just wrong. Newer Android version have that indicator as well.
And the same applies to many other things.
Of course Apple and Google will check what the other side is doing and
implementing stuff as well. For example iOS did not have a clipboard in
the beginning. Once that got added as well it was praised as one of the
many cool features, iOS provides. Well - Android hat this from the
beginning. And the same the other way around like the camera/mic
indicator added to Android as well and many other things.
This document is full of outdated stuff.
For example:
"55 iOS Features that Many Android Users Want that Only iPhone Users Get
(...)
Microphone and camera indicator"
This is just wrong. Newer Android version have that indicator as well.
And the same applies to many other things.
Of course Apple and Google will check what the other side is doing and
implementing stuff as well. For example iOS did not have a clipboard in
the beginning. Once that got added as well it was praised as one of the
many cool features, iOS provides. Well - Android hat this from the
beginning. And the same the other way around like the camera/mic
indicator added to Android as well and many other things.
Wally J
12 nov 2023, 14:13:2812/11/23
a
Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>>> Fewer holes in the case for dust and water to get inside for a start.
>>>
>>>> FM radios
>>
>> Are the IP ratings higher for all the phones that lack the normal ports?
>
> It is easier to achieve with one less jack opening in the case. But of
> course it is also possible with headphone jacks. My old Sony Z3 Compact
> was also water proof and it had a headphone jack. But back then it was
> also not the cheapest one compared to other devices with similar hardware.
There is only one reason Apple removed the charger and the headphone jack.
(It's the same reason no iPhone has basic standard portable storage slots.)
And no, it's not for waterproofing, as Arno Welzel shows he knows well.
It's Apple's basic strategy to drastically limit hardware & software
functionality so Apple can better control how the consumer buys it back.
--
When you look at it from a functionality standpoint, for both hardware and
for software, there never was an iPhone that could be compared to Android
(unless you choose to completely ignore the iPhone is crippled by Apple).
>>> Fewer holes in the case for dust and water to get inside for a start.
>>>
>>>> FM radios
>>
>> Are the IP ratings higher for all the phones that lack the normal ports?
>
> It is easier to achieve with one less jack opening in the case. But of
> course it is also possible with headphone jacks. My old Sony Z3 Compact
> was also water proof and it had a headphone jack. But back then it was
> also not the cheapest one compared to other devices with similar hardware.
There is only one reason Apple removed the charger and the headphone jack.
(It's the same reason no iPhone has basic standard portable storage slots.)
And no, it's not for waterproofing, as Arno Welzel shows he knows well.
It's Apple's basic strategy to drastically limit hardware & software
functionality so Apple can better control how the consumer buys it back.
--
When you look at it from a functionality standpoint, for both hardware and
for software, there never was an iPhone that could be compared to Android
(unless you choose to completely ignore the iPhone is crippled by Apple).
Wally J
12 nov 2023, 14:25:5412/11/23
a
AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote
>> Sofar, I use none of the three (headphone jack, SD card slot and FM
>> radio), but it's nice to know they're there, just in case.
>
> Yup. Like a fire extinguisher...
When you compare "resale value" for an iPhone compared to, oh, say my free
Samsung Galaxy A32-5G, Alan Browne doesn't take into account it comes with
a. An aux jack
b. An portable memory slot
c. A fast charger in the box
etc.
That's just hardware.
The Android has app functionality the iPhone can only dream of having.
Why?
A. Because most software functionality is added by developers;
B. Apple severely restricts the software functionality developers can add;
C. Google can't.
The point is that any iPhone would cost, overall, ten to twenty times the
cost of my phone - which - let's be very clear - has far more app
functionality than even the most expensive iPhone that was ever sold.
Just the California 10% sales tax alone on the iPhone is far more than the
lifetime costs of my entire Android phone, including the tax I paid for it.
Hence, the only way anyone could claim an iPhone has lower total costs of
ownership is for them to completely ignore the total costs of ownership.
--
Comparing an iPhone to Android is like comparing a sedan to a sports car.
>> Sofar, I use none of the three (headphone jack, SD card slot and FM
>> radio), but it's nice to know they're there, just in case.
>
> Yup. Like a fire extinguisher...
When you compare "resale value" for an iPhone compared to, oh, say my free
Samsung Galaxy A32-5G, Alan Browne doesn't take into account it comes with
a. An aux jack
b. An portable memory slot
c. A fast charger in the box
etc.
That's just hardware.
The Android has app functionality the iPhone can only dream of having.
Why?
A. Because most software functionality is added by developers;
B. Apple severely restricts the software functionality developers can add;
C. Google can't.
The point is that any iPhone would cost, overall, ten to twenty times the
cost of my phone - which - let's be very clear - has far more app
functionality than even the most expensive iPhone that was ever sold.
Just the California 10% sales tax alone on the iPhone is far more than the
lifetime costs of my entire Android phone, including the tax I paid for it.
Hence, the only way anyone could claim an iPhone has lower total costs of
ownership is for them to completely ignore the total costs of ownership.
--
Comparing an iPhone to Android is like comparing a sedan to a sports car.
Carlos E. R.
12 nov 2023, 14:38:4912/11/23
a
Again, your posting is broken.
References: <ui6qua$ocn5$1...@paganini.bofh.team>
<uibjjc$14i9c$1...@paganini.bofh.team> <kqtc65...@mid.individual.net>
<uig75d$1l4j5$1...@paganini.bofh.team> <kr1m94...@mid.individual.net>
<uighm4...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
<uihv5m$23ul$1...@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
<kr3s9l...@mid.individual.net>
<uik404$266f$1...@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
<kr6s5g...@mid.individual.net>
<uillel...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
<uinhr0$2hknv$1...@paganini.bofh.team>
<uiob0h...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
Your post gets positioned as a reply to
Message-ID: <uiob0h...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
which is a post by Frank Slootweg mentioning this error precissely, yet
you quote Arno Welzel, which is not in this thread.
Please correct your software before saying anything else.
>
>>>> Fewer holes in the case for dust and water to get inside for a start.
>>>>
>>>>> FM radios
>>>
>>> Are the IP ratings higher for all the phones that lack the normal ports?
>>
>> It is easier to achieve with one less jack opening in the case. But of
>> course it is also possible with headphone jacks. My old Sony Z3 Compact
>> was also water proof and it had a headphone jack. But back then it was
>> also not the cheapest one compared to other devices with similar hardware.
>
> There is only one reason Apple removed the charger and the headphone jack.
> (It's the same reason no iPhone has basic standard portable storage slots.)
>
> And no, it's not for waterproofing, as Arno Welzel shows he knows well.
>
> It's Apple's basic strategy to drastically limit hardware & software
> functionality so Apple can better control how the consumer buys it back.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
References: <ui6qua$ocn5$1...@paganini.bofh.team>
<uibjjc$14i9c$1...@paganini.bofh.team> <kqtc65...@mid.individual.net>
<uig75d$1l4j5$1...@paganini.bofh.team> <kr1m94...@mid.individual.net>
<uighm4...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
<uihv5m$23ul$1...@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
<kr3s9l...@mid.individual.net>
<uik404$266f$1...@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
<kr6s5g...@mid.individual.net>
<uillel...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
<uinhr0$2hknv$1...@paganini.bofh.team>
<uiob0h...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
Your post gets positioned as a reply to
Message-ID: <uiob0h...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
which is a post by Frank Slootweg mentioning this error precissely, yet
you quote Arno Welzel, which is not in this thread.
Please correct your software before saying anything else.
>
>>>> Fewer holes in the case for dust and water to get inside for a start.
>>>>
>>>>> FM radios
>>>
>>> Are the IP ratings higher for all the phones that lack the normal ports?
>>
>> It is easier to achieve with one less jack opening in the case. But of
>> course it is also possible with headphone jacks. My old Sony Z3 Compact
>> was also water proof and it had a headphone jack. But back then it was
>> also not the cheapest one compared to other devices with similar hardware.
>
> There is only one reason Apple removed the charger and the headphone jack.
> (It's the same reason no iPhone has basic standard portable storage slots.)
>
> And no, it's not for waterproofing, as Arno Welzel shows he knows well.
>
> It's Apple's basic strategy to drastically limit hardware & software
> functionality so Apple can better control how the consumer buys it back.
--
Carlos E.R.
Carlos E. R.
12 nov 2023, 14:41:3612/11/23
a
Those are threads. Not properly filed, indexed and formatted articles.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
Frank Slootweg
12 nov 2023, 15:27:2212/11/23
a
Your 'References:' header is *still* broken! Fix it.
[...]
[...]
Alan
12 nov 2023, 17:37:5812/11/23
a
On 2023-11-12 11:25, Wally J wrote:
> AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote
>
>>> Sofar, I use none of the three (headphone jack, SD card slot and FM
>>> radio), but it's nice to know they're there, just in case.
>>
>> Yup. Like a fire extinguisher...
>
> When you compare "resale value" for an iPhone compared to, oh, say my free
> Samsung Galaxy A32-5G, Alan Browne doesn't take into account it comes with
> a. An aux jack
> b. An portable memory slot
> c. A fast charger in the box
> etc.
Only fools think a phone is "free" just because there isn't a line item
> AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote
>
>>> Sofar, I use none of the three (headphone jack, SD card slot and FM
>>> radio), but it's nice to know they're there, just in case.
>>
>> Yup. Like a fire extinguisher...
>
> When you compare "resale value" for an iPhone compared to, oh, say my free
> Samsung Galaxy A32-5G, Alan Browne doesn't take into account it comes with
> a. An aux jack
> b. An portable memory slot
> c. A fast charger in the box
> etc.
on your invoice.
david
12 nov 2023, 23:49:5812/11/23
a
Using <news:uirk43$8g9l$1...@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:
> Only fools think a phone is "free" just because there isn't a line item
> on your invoice.
T-Mobile gave every postpaid USA customer (who wanted it) a free 5G phone a
> Only fools think a phone is "free" just because there isn't a line item
> on your invoice.
few months after the Sprint merger without changing any of the plan prices.
Wally J
17 nov 2023, 18:40:5117/11/23
a
a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models, *0% choice for iPhones*
b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models, *0% choice for iPhones*
c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models, *0% choice for iPhones*
Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack is more
functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is less
functional by definition)...
And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an important safety
feature in a phone during an emergency...
Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory disagree that
it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019 to today...
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet this standard.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio emergency feature.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the standard AUX jack.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important portable-memory slot.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5% unfortunately.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor Apple user.
AUX <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
FM <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
SD <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
In summary, the choices for Android are:
a. 75% AUX
b. 50% FM Radio
c. 71% SD SLOT
That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
a. 0% AUX
b. 0% FM Radio
c. 0% SD SLOT
The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet another reason
why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks basic hardware.
--
My role is to provide the facts, and to confront the morons who only know
the fantastically unbelievable bullshit that Apple MARKETING has fed them.
b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models, *0% choice for iPhones*
c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models, *0% choice for iPhones*
Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack is more
functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is less
functional by definition)...
And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an important safety
feature in a phone during an emergency...
Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory disagree that
it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019 to today...
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet this standard.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio emergency feature.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the standard AUX jack.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important portable-memory slot.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5% unfortunately.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor Apple user.
AUX <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
FM <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
SD <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
In summary, the choices for Android are:
a. 75% AUX
b. 50% FM Radio
c. 71% SD SLOT
That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
a. 0% AUX
b. 0% FM Radio
c. 0% SD SLOT
The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet another reason
why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks basic hardware.
--
My role is to provide the facts, and to confront the morons who only know
the fantastically unbelievable bullshit that Apple MARKETING has fed them.
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